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LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
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Deleted member 21445
Guest
The golden oldie Majesticks seem to be stepping up on day one....................at last
The situation is like all war plans where the invading strategy generals think they have a plan that will defeat the opposition quickly and fully. But on first encounter with enemy, the plan crumbles. And warmongers never set out with the intention of campaigns being long drawn out affairs.
LIV's strategy was based on a significant number of top ranking golfers being lured by the dollars last year. On that basis, everything was to follow : TV deals interested in showcasing the big names of golf, credibility as tournament competition with sports media and fans, sponsors with further investment, and, having a significant wedge of the worlds top golfers, quick access to ranking points, as the majors would have to ensure they are not excluding of 20 or 30 of the worlds top golfers. And even that other tours, shorn of much of their strength, would have to negotiate a peace deal in order to retain access to some of their former prime assets.
But on encountering the PGAT's war chest money, and the foot soldiers themselves mobilising en masse to the cause in the Willmington meeting, LIV became bogged down. None of the above followed. The plan crumbled in every respect. That fundamental recruitment failure feeds into the many tangled elements: the weak fields are unattractive to fans, uncompetitive fields are off putting to other stars who might have joined, lack of top names leaves them without TV interest. The lack of top names blunts any urgency to include their golfers in majors or rankings. Lack of TV and credible media support does not attract sponsors, and so on. Nobody wants to board a sinking ship.
It is hard to see LIV pulling out of this nosedive. And it all comes from the recruitment blitzkrieg failure of last spring/summer.
AussieKB
Well-known member
"But on encountering the PGAT's war chest money"
I am wondering where this came from as they said there was no extra money ?
Don't get you knickers in a twist, I'm just curious, maybe Phil was right all along.
I am wondering where this came from as they said there was no extra money ?
Don't get you knickers in a twist, I'm just curious, maybe Phil was right all along.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Let's hope the PGAT have got another war chest somewhere, as another sponsor (AT&T) is revealed to be cutting ties with the tour.
Meanwhile, the people signing the cheques for LIV, have now got 97 BILLION dollars more at their disposal, than they did when LIV started out last year - despite spunking 3 billion on a project that according to backsticks, is doomed..
Maybe somebody from the PGAT side (and Seth Waugh should be impartial by the way), can come out and explain what their long term strategy is - because if the money coming in is down, and the money going out is up, they have a very, very big problem...
Meanwhile, the people signing the cheques for LIV, have now got 97 BILLION dollars more at their disposal, than they did when LIV started out last year - despite spunking 3 billion on a project that according to backsticks, is doomed..
Maybe somebody from the PGAT side (and Seth Waugh should be impartial by the way), can come out and explain what their long term strategy is - because if the money coming in is down, and the money going out is up, they have a very, very big problem...
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Something to back up a point I made a couple of days back about players competing on alternate tours without requests or permission with no issues.
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BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
The DPWT press releases a few days ago made reference to fines for playing on Asian Tour, I was waiting for more details to understand further. But this sounds like a stepping up of the battles.
Most I think understood the historical 'agreement' PGAT don't play in Europe and European Tour as was don't play in USA.
But the DPWT have a fair number of their events in Asia.
Messy, is likely going to force several players' hands.
Most I think understood the historical 'agreement' PGAT don't play in Europe and European Tour as was don't play in USA.
But the DPWT have a fair number of their events in Asia.
Messy, is likely going to force several players' hands.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
And of course, the Asian Tour is now moving into European territory with their events - something Pelley isn't particularly happy about..
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
I think the picture of the short term future is clarifying -
Play on DPWT with the goal of reaching PGAT
Play on Asian Tour with the goal of reaching LIV league
I think for 2024 we will find out just how serious the financiers are. For me, the AT purses would need another bump up (also to encourage the bigger name league players to show up on them). And the league would need to be larger so more spots available.
Play on DPWT with the goal of reaching PGAT
Play on Asian Tour with the goal of reaching LIV league
I think for 2024 we will find out just how serious the financiers are. For me, the AT purses would need another bump up (also to encourage the bigger name league players to show up on them). And the league would need to be larger so more spots available.
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Deleted member 21445
Guest
The DPWT have to make a stance to be fair.
The Asian Tour is a huge threat to DPWT.
They are moving into their territory with European tournaments and have the backing to blow the DPWT purses out of the water in the future if they choose to, to tempt players.
Also a chance, although a slim chance to qualify for the untold riches of the Liv Tour.
If you were a solid DPWT pro but with an outside chance of making the top 10 on DPWT.
Someone like an Andy Sullivan who is currently 84 in the DPWT rankings, A player DPWT would not want to lose.
You would possibly be looking at it and thinking right if I go there and finish T15 I will get £xxxxx more for my finish than where I am now.
A lot of these guys are just looking for where they can make the best living.
If enough decided to do that then it would be detrimental to DPWT.
So I dont blame them for taking a tough stance on releasing members for rival tour events.
The Asian Tour is a huge threat to DPWT.
They are moving into their territory with European tournaments and have the backing to blow the DPWT purses out of the water in the future if they choose to, to tempt players.
Also a chance, although a slim chance to qualify for the untold riches of the Liv Tour.
If you were a solid DPWT pro but with an outside chance of making the top 10 on DPWT.
Someone like an Andy Sullivan who is currently 84 in the DPWT rankings, A player DPWT would not want to lose.
You would possibly be looking at it and thinking right if I go there and finish T15 I will get £xxxxx more for my finish than where I am now.
A lot of these guys are just looking for where they can make the best living.
If enough decided to do that then it would be detrimental to DPWT.
So I dont blame them for taking a tough stance on releasing members for rival tour events.
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Every event within the PGAT has a sponsor , if AT&T stop sponsoring the Byron Nelson ( they aren’t cutting ties with the tour as they will still sponsor Peeble Beach ) then the Tour will bring in a new sponsor. Sponsers are something they don’t have an issue with getting - as opposed to LIV who can’t get any sponsorship
And Waugh said some very relevant points - how long will Saudi stand up LIV , doesn’t matter how much money Saudi have they won’t just keep paying the bill every year , but LIV can’t find a way to be sustainable due to no major sponsor or media deals , very little money coming in and a lot going out , nowhere near sustainable , at least the PGAT is sustainable.
To suggest PGAT has a very big problem when it makes a profit and LiV doesn’t when it makes a huge loss it typical of your tunnel vision.
Waugh also mentioned the Ranking Points issue - seems LIV have been told what needs to happen for the tour to get ranking points but it’s silence from LIV - so looks like there won’t be any points for events any time soon.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Who are the sponsors that are going to step in to replace AT&T and Honda. Monaghan has had to bin one of them off because they do business with the Saudis? Err,,, Hello Mr Monaghan, FEDEX do a huge amount of business in Saudi - not the smartest thing to come out and say - but, they've no choice have they, cos they've painted the Saudis as the enemy all along, so now of course can't afford to enter into any business arrangement that connects them with 'blood money'..
To the Saudis, LIV golf is part of a much bigger picture, the same reason they took Ronaldo out there and are trying to get Messi to go - they need to rebuild their economy for the post oil era, and as long as LIV is growing - which it unarguably is, and serves a purpose to help promote the country, they'll stand behind it.
The sponsors and team franchises will be along, and the players dropping out of the legal action helps ease that.
And lets not forget, the PGAT makes a profit because 4 percent of it's income goes to charities....
To the Saudis, LIV golf is part of a much bigger picture, the same reason they took Ronaldo out there and are trying to get Messi to go - they need to rebuild their economy for the post oil era, and as long as LIV is growing - which it unarguably is, and serves a purpose to help promote the country, they'll stand behind it.
The sponsors and team franchises will be along, and the players dropping out of the legal action helps ease that.
And lets not forget, the PGAT makes a profit because 4 percent of it's income goes to charities....
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Porsche reportedly pulling out of their sponsorship deal with the DPWT.
Man the lifeboats...
Man the lifeboats...
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Deleted member 29109
Guest
There is doing business, and there is doing business. The devil is in the detail!
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Deleted member 29109
Guest
Porsche reportedly pulling out of their sponsorship deal with the DPWT.
Man the lifeboats...
That’s old news. Do try to keep up.
Are you not reading the press release packages?
With all of the sponsors leaving the two main tours, there must be a queue forming outside Greg’s office!
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Team Porsche - it has a nice ring to it - they'd shift a few motors in the middle east on the back of it as well, don't you think...
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
There is no doubt that a company will come in and sponser the events , they haven’t struggled before
Because the company involved are supplying weapons to Saudi and I would expect most would think it’s a good choice to avoid that - I’m not aware of Fed Ex supplying weapons. But which companies provide sponsorship for LIV ?
How exactly is spending billions each year on golf going to help them rebuild their economy- it’s sports washing at the end of the day
The “franchises” and sponsors have been coming along for the last 12 months , still zilch , nada , nothing , just like the media deals.
Right now the model is hanging on using the Saudi money and nothing else
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Maybe read the “reports”Porsche reportedly pulling out of their sponsorship deal with the DPWT.
Man the lifeboats...
Porsche may withdraw backing after DP World Tour suspends LIV Golf rebels
Paul Casey and Martin Kaymer have been banned from the European Open and Porsche may remove its backing from the tournament in Hamburg as a result
This is what they said
“A spokesperson for Porsche said: “We heard about the individual sanctions of the Tour against players. But as those are individual we do not know so far what this means exactly to each player and are in contact with the Tour and the managements.” Regarding its association with the tournament, the spokesperson said: “The Porsche European Open is a great event. We are in discussions about the future of the event with the promoter and the Tour.”
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Phil's do you ever look at your post full of quotes, and think, "That looks bloody terrible"..
Just reply without quoting, I'll know your responding to me, cos 99% of the time, you are..
Just reply without quoting, I'll know your responding to me, cos 99% of the time, you are..
Ronaldo and Messi is the same syndrome though -finished, or dying days of their careers as footballers going to low level football, where their benefit is as legend celebrities, not as current top flight footballers playing real tournaments. Thats Mickelson and Westwood. Bellingham, Mbappe, Barella, Saka, Haaland, etc are not going to Saudi in their wildest dreams as long as they are world class players playing champions league, winning trophies that matter, and are playing for their countries.
There really is a niche for LIV to carve out for itself as a golden oldies world tour. It would have merit as such. But aspiring to be an alternative or out and out premier division of world golf, is where it has failed.
