LIV Golf

[IanM]

Liv won't fold.

There are huge egos at stake and an even bigger budget!

 

[Deleted member 21445]

I just find it fascinating how different Liv Golf is perceived in other parts of the world.
TV network and politicians happy to share in the success.

Do think louder golf is a good fit for the Aussie crowd and they should build their brand around more events there.

 

[Backsticks]

I just find it fascinating how different Liv Golf is perceived in other parts of the world.
TV network and politicians happy to share in the success.

Do think louder golf is a good fit for the Aussie crowd and they should build their brand around more events there.

TV networks have broadly shunned LIV.
And are we really taking comfort from what politicians will turn up to ? Opening of an envelope and all that...

 

[Deleted member 21445]

TV networks have broadly shunned LIV.
And are we really taking comfort from what politicians will turn up to ? Opening of an envelope and all that...

No just find it interesting that other countries want to embrace the Liv product and are excited about having more of it in the future.

 

[AussieKB]

Victoria State Golf do not support LIV because they are tied to the PGA via Presidents Cup, but NSW and Queensland have come out in full support of LIV and are trying to get an event in their States.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Victoria State Golf do not support LIV because they are tied to the PGA via Presidents Cup, but NSW and Queensland have come out in full support of LIV and are trying to get an event in their States.

Don't know what the courses are like in NSW or Queensland, but I'd imagine an event within an hour or so of Sydney would be a massive hit - it's one of the most recognisable cities in the world and I'm guessing would draw huge interest. Watching the commentary on Saturday morning and Greg Norman and the Feherty were discussing it along with Arlo White - they all agreed a week in Australia isn't enough - so there will be another event there next year if they can find a course.

 

[evemccc]

Is there any reason why they haven’t snapped up Turnberry / Trump Aberdeen? I would have thought Trump Aberdeen would have been a great fit, likewise somewhere like The Grove in southern England..and Cape Kidnappers in NZ

A bunch of privately owned courses with beautiful scenery without any historical links to holding prestigious championships, I’d have thought would be win-win for both parties

 

[Mel Smooth]

Is there any reason why they haven’t snapped up Turnberry / Trump Aberdeen? I would have thought Trump Aberdeen would have been a great fit, likewise somewhere like The Grove in southern England..and Cape Kidnappers in NZ

A bunch of privately owned courses with beautiful scenery without any historical links to holding prestigious championships, I’d have thought would be win-win for both parties

Remember last year when GN said there was a lot of anti LIV sentiment in the US and the UK, maybe that's the reason? Centurion isn't the most inspiring venue but it is handy for London. I'd imagine if this years event is well supported, then they'll possibly look to move it to a more recognisable course - and one of Trumps courses would no doubt have no issues doing further business with LIV.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Liv have actually given each team funds this year to cover their operating costs - obviously some teams will win a lot more than others and so therefore the value of the teams will increase. I doubt LIV will want a share of that money back - they are putting money in until it becomes self sustainable - so very much doubt they'd take back the money they put in in the first place.
If Mickelson decided to sell as in your example, I'd imagine that is pretty much how it would work - although he might not be selling to a player - it could just be a very rich businessman who wants a plaything.

Last year LIV were covering the team expenses and travel to events, hence the photos/videos from the LIV plane being released, but I thought I'd read somewhere that the teams were now covering their own costs for things such as traveling to events and accommodation and that their team winnings from each event were now put into a pot to cover those expenses with any profits split at the end of the season. Maybe I've got that wrong, but that was the reason behind the question about LIV owning a 75% share of the team and would they get that share of any team winnings after expenses.

Also not convinced on the value of the teams increasing unless there's a guarantee on which players will be on that team the following season. It's all very well saying that the Shankers team is worth £750 million because it's got Bryson, Reed, Johnson and Smith in it but it's not going to be worth anything close to that if the following season it's got Canter, Ogletree, Tringale and Lahiri.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Last year LIV were covering the team expenses and travel to events, hence the photos/videos from the LIV plane being released, but I thought I'd read somewhere that the teams were now covering their own costs for things such as traveling to events and accommodation and that their team winnings from each event were now put into a pot to cover those expenses with any profits split at the end of the season. Maybe I've got that wrong, but that was the reason behind the question about LIV owning a 75% share of the team and would they get that share of any team winnings after expenses.

Also not convinced on the value of the teams increasing unless there's a guarantee on which players will be on that team the following season. It's all very well saying that the Shankers team is worth £750 million because it's got Bryson, Reed, Johnson and Smith in it but it's not going to be worth anything close to that if the following season it's got Canter, Ogletree, Tringale and Lahiri.

That's how the teams are being funded this year, assuming the reporting is correct. As I said before, I can't imagine there's any reason why LIV would want any of that money back at this stage.
Eventually it will work like many other sports organisations - privately owned teams owned by individual benefactors who generate income based on success via lots of different revenue teams, and the hosting organisation (liv) who will generate income through ticket sales, media revenue, maybe title sponsorship etc.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That's how the teams are being funded this year, assuming the reporting is correct. As I said before, I can't imagine there's any reason why LIV would want any of that money back at this stage.
Eventually it will work like many other sports organisations - privately owned teams owned by individual benefactors who generate income based on success via lots of different revenue teams, and the hosting organisation (liv) who will generate income through ticket sales, media revenue, maybe title sponsorship etc.

Sorry but this franchise idea and the suggestion that it will work like other sports is based on what ?

There are hugely different dynamics between a franchise in IPL for example or US sports to 4 golfers being some sort of team

Franchises in Ipl need funding to help pay the players wages , they own their grounds and stadiums so get ticket sales and marketing through that

In what way is the “majestics” anyway near the same as those franchises ?

What ticket sales will they get when they play at venues not owned by them and also every single other team plays at the same venue

They can’t negotiate their own Telly rights

What private benefactors will spend any significant money on 4 players ?

there is no blueprint for it and despite it being talked about for ages but nothing but talk.

It’s not like other sports. What other franchise sport has anywhere near the same blueprint as golf ?

Now a brand can bring in money from marketing their brand - clothing and sponsership


But how is it going to get anywhere near sustainable when you look at the level of money each event pays out

 

[Bdill93]

Sorry but this franchise idea and the suggestion that it will work like other sports is based on what ?

There are hugely different dynamics between a franchise in IPL for example or US sports to 4 golfers being some sort of team

Franchises in Ipl need funding to help pay the players wages , they own their grounds and stadiums so get ticket sales and marketing through that

In what way is the “majestics” anyway near the same as those franchises ?

What ticket sales will they get when they play at venues not owned by them and also every single other team plays at the same venue

They can’t negotiate their own Telly rights

What private benefactors will spend any significant money on 4 players ?

there is no blueprint for it and despite it being talked about for ages but nothing but talk.

It’s not like other sports. What other franchise sport has anywhere near the same blueprint as golf ?

Now a brand can bring in money from marketing their brand - clothing and sponsership


But how is it going to get anywhere near sustainable when you look at the level of money each event pays out

Yet again, Give it time.

Honestly if the event in Australia haven't demonstrated to you that LIV is going nowhere, is actually well liked by younger generations and it can produce a sell out crowd then I don't know what will. That's step 1.

They're less than 20 events in to their entire existence and have had larger crowds this weekend than any other tour.

Step 2 - commercial investment/ sponsors, and id be willing to bet some of this now comes from Aus based companies!

 

[Bdill93]

What did you make of his LIV players not being on the Ryder cup comments? He seemed a little ambiguous, iirc all he said was is if you didn’t play in the DP World Tour you wouldn’t be selected or be able to be captain, almost like he left it open for people to come back and be involved again.

I think they know they'll have to find a way back for a few faces but its not possible until all legal actions across the tours are dropped or concluded. That's what it suggested to me anyway!

Its a shame, because I really don't care where Poulter plays or who he's "sold his soul" to - he should be a captain one day.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yet again, Give it time.

Honestly if the event in Australia haven't demonstrated to you that LIV is going nowhere, is actually well liked by younger generations and it can produce a sell out crowd then I don't know what will. That's step 1.

They're less than 20 events in to their entire existence and have had larger crowds this weekend than any other tour.

Step 2 - commercial investment/ sponsors, and id be willing to bet some of this now comes from Aus based companies!

None of that means anything when talking about franchises - it’s massively different dynamic

Yes the event was popular in Aus and it clearly shows that they should have more events there and prob get more events in Asia , South Africa etc


But having more fans than normal at a single event doesnt mean that franchises can be created in an individual sport. Is franchise just a buzz word that’s been thrown around with little thought to how it actually works

Can anyone explain how you can make a franchise from a handful of golfers with a team name and why someone would buy into it ?

 

[Bdill93]

None of that means anything when talking about franchises - it’s massively different dynamic

Yes the event was popular in Aus and it clearly shows that they should have more events there and prob get more events in Asia , South Africa etc


But having more fans than normal at a single event doesnt mean that franchises can be created in an individual sport. Is franchise just a buzz word that’s been thrown around with little thought to how it actually works

Can anyone explain how you can make a franchise from a handful of golfers with a team name and why someone would buy into it ?

I don't get how you don't get it... You're smarter than this Phil and I think you're just being deliberately obtuse.

They can sell media rights for players, they can sign with equipment manufacturers as a team, they can bring in sponsors for their own team and advertise on their clothing.

Its the exact model that every PGA tour player currently has but instead of one dude, its 4 working together.

Its the exact model that exists in the premier league, the NFL, the NBA, PGA tour etc, players have fan bases, fan bases are potential customers - so businesses sponsor players.

Gucci are paying footballer Jack Grealish 10m over their agreement. This is 2023. Its barmy but its how the world is going.

Just because YOU don't like and wouldn't invest in LIV does not mean plenty of others wont.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I don't get how you don't get it... You're smarter than this Phil and I think you're just being deliberately obtuse.

They can sell media rights for players, they can sign with equipment manufacturers as a team, they can bring in sponsors for their own team and advertise on their clothing.

Its the exact model that every PGA tour player currently has but instead of one dude, its 4 working together.

Its the exact model that exists in the premier league, the NFL, the NBA, PGA tour etc, players have fan bases, fan bases are potential customers - so businesses sponsor players.

Gucci are paying footballer Jack Grealish 10m over their agreement. This is 2023. Its barmy but its how the world is going.

Just because YOU don't like and wouldn't invest in LIV does not mean plenty of others wont.

It’s not about being deliberately obtuse

When people make statements about what they think will happen then people are more within their rights to challenge it

it’s not the exact model in the NFL , NBA, and other teams sports.


There is a big difference between a brand and a franchise

Grealish is a brand on his own and gets sponsership for various other brands to help market them - adverts etc

Man City as a team in its own right bring in millions each year which help pay the wages etc

There is a world of difference between the brand of Grealish and the franchise of Man City the club

Liv can’t get any meaningful sponsers outside Saudi PIF based companies , can’t get any major media deals, they are held up by the tune of about $1bn each year from Saudi so who are these people that would be willing to buy or invest in these created franchises ? Manufacturers are stopping their associations with players

Can’t keep using “it’s only just started”

Other sports leagues and franchises have it all sorted before it starts. Liv can’t even sell out every event.

 

[GB72]

Fair point, you cannot keep saying it has only just started. To be fair though, it took the PGA Tour decades of poaching the top players from other tours with offers to rich rewards to get where it is today, give LIV time

 

[Bdill93]

It’s not about being deliberately obtuse

When people make statements about what they think will happen then people are more within their rights to challenge it

it’s not the exact model in the NFL , NBA, and other teams sports.


There is a big difference between a brand and a franchise

Grealish is a brand on his own and gets sponsership for various other brands to help market them - adverts etc

Man City as a team in its own right bring in millions each year which help pay the wages etc

There is a world of difference between the brand of Grealish and the franchise of Man City the club

Liv can’t get any meaningful sponsers outside Saudi PIF based companies , can’t get any major media deals, they are held up by the tune of about $1bn each year from Saudi so who are these people that would be willing to buy or invest in these created franchises ? Manufacturers are stopping their associations with players

Can’t keep using “it’s only just started”

Other sports leagues and franchises have it all sorted before it starts. Liv can’t even sell out every event.

Yes they do, but you've been challenging with the same argument for about 500 pages of thread and you still wont open your eyes to the reality of the situation and are very much blinkered in your thinking when it comes to LIV.

Bryson is a brand on his own, Phil, Sergio, DJ the list goes on. These guys can sign Grealish type deals for their franchises to create cash flow.

Villa are paid by Castore to make their kit. Why cant Majesticks sign the same type of deal for their team down the line?

Omega sponsor Rory, whos to say they wont fancy a slice of the 4 Aces pie?

The only "world of difference" is that franchises like Man City can say to Qatar airways that they have media rights to all players and therefore demand a higher fee on sponsorship.

Individual player deals are likely to be smaller.

Enter LIV franchises where 4 players club together and all of a sudden you have more to offer your sponsors.

 

[PJ87]

Fair point, you cannot keep saying it has only just started. To be fair though, it took the PGA Tour decades of poaching the top players from other tours with offers to rich rewards to get where it is today, give LIV time

last year was a beta year with liv.

this year is the test really.

already spiced up the masters which was great because you actually got the fullest field (in terms of the players like smith, brooks, DJ, reed) competing with the others

I love the majors and will just make them even more interesting

 

[Bdill93]

Fair point, you cannot keep saying it has only just started. To be fair though, it took the PGA Tour decades of poaching the top players from other tours with offers to rich rewards to get where it is today, give LIV time

You absolutely can though. Would you invest in a start up electric car firm today or Tesla?

Plenty invest in Tesla now but wouldn't have 10 years ago.

Business takes time and patience. Just because established competitions have been set up in the past with sponsors on board it doesn't mean its the only way to do things - its the slower way and one that LIV doesn't need to worry about initially. They have the start up capital themselves!