Mel Smooth
Hacker
People shouting “whataboutery” are those people that have list the argument but haven’t got the grace to concede.
We all know it. ;-)
We all know it. ;-)
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
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Deleted member 29109
Guest
How is playing on the ET supporting it? It’s where he earned his living. He wasn’t doing it for free.
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Yup that chap and that tour. Imagine the state of world sports if players were restricted from moving between leagues/tours/codes/sports etc once you'd made your first serious pro appearance
You might view this type of thing as akin to chucking donkeys off a spanish bell tower but in sporting terms I think its just called a playing career
So ultimately what’s the issue with people being critical about Westwood and the way he talks to people - is that all ok because he has played golf on European Tour
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Deleted member 29109
Guest
Were OGWR points awarded for this event? I recall someone possibly saying that LiV events would be getting them after the Masters?
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Or people that use whataboutary are trying to deflect away from any relevant and fair criticism
A perfect example is yourself constantly raising the PGAT or Rory when responding to criticism of LIV and any of the golfers
The current discussion about Westwood perfect example - your response was “but Rory” - it’s your standard
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Interestingly Pelley said on the bunkered pod that he thinks OWGR will be changing massively as effectively its just a metric for major qualification and its now irrelevant due to LIV players ranking falls.
They floated the idea of "the top X players" on each tour qualifying for majors and Pelley seemed to suggest that may be the way forward!
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
So ultimately what’s the issue with people being critical about Westwood and the way he talks to people - is that all ok because he has played golf on European Tour
Are we at chicken and egg time now? Who made the first snipy comment. I'll admit I have no idea
I guess those with an issue are oblivious that if you poke anyone with a stick enough times but are still surprised and will then be critical when that stick is batted away.
You have to wonder how they function in the real world
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
I think there needs to be some level of changes but It will need to be weighted in regards the tour they are playing , the competitions etc
It’s going to be tough for comparisons between the tours
I always thought every event should how the same weighting if they are playing the same 4 rounds etc
If it’s three rounds then reductions etc but don’t think it will work
I also don’t think they will use order or merits - some tours will play 20 plus events , some a lot less.
It’s certainly not easy to find a way to judge golfers on a level playing field when it varies across each tour
Should the Kenya Open as example get the same rating as the Memorial.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
And your standard is to steadfastly refuse to acknowledge a counter argument.
The discussion was started over a comment made by Richard Bland, and then somebody said “what about” Lee Westwood - you piled in. As soon as I’ve mentioned Rory you’ve thrown your toys out of the pram.
So, what are the ground rules for debate Phil? I’d love to know what you think is acceptable for me to post.
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
I’m still not sure what this has to do with Mickelson having one good round and Rory having one bad tournament and judging players golf wise across a number of tournaments- ie the comment you replied to about Westwood and supporting the ET
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Who dropped the R bomb and dared level any criticism?
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I’m still not sure what this has to do with Mickelson having one good round and Rory having one bad tournament and judging players golf wise across a number of tournaments- ie the comment you replied to about Westwood and supporting the ET
And that's the crux when risking having a bit of a discussion with you
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
I agree, I'm purely spitballing here but id do something like:
156 place tournament
75 places to top ranked PGA tour players
10 places to top ranked ET players
10 places to top ranked LIV players
10 places to top ranked KFT players
15 places amongst other tours
(players with exemptions/ already qualified)
Qualifiers
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Do you have a counter argument to what people are discussing in regards Westwoods interactions on social media ? I don’t see one beyond you bringing up Rory
- I don’t think there are any toys being thrown about . Surely you must have more than “but Rory” as some sort of counter debate - or is that it ? Is it always going to be the same reaction whenever someone posts anything critical about LIV or the players ( in the LIV thread)
It’s almost cult like now - very reminiscent of Scientology
That doesn’t really answer the question though - what does Westwood social media interactions have to do with McIlroys and Micklesons performances on a golf course
If the discussion was Westwoods performance on a golf course then it becomes valid - but unless I’m mistake people were talking about how he interacts with people on social media.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Do you have a counter argument to what people are discussing in regards Westwoods interactions on social media ? I don’t see one beyond you bringing up Rory
Is it always going to be the same reaction whenever someone posts anything critical about LIV or the players ( in the LIV thread)
It’s almost cult like now - very reminiscent of Scientology
That doesn’t really answer the question though - what does Westwood social media interactions have to do with McIlroys and Micklesons performances on a golf course
If the discussion was Westwoods performance on a golf course then it becomes valid - but unless I’m mistake people were talking about how he interacts with people on social media.
Yes, the counter argument is to demonstrate that Rory is as bad, if not worse than Westwood for being critical of other tours, and their players. For some bizarre reason, you seem to have a problem with that?
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Don’t think you can use KFT as a direct entry and also need the Asian Tour as well
Plus there are also more spots for various tours and qualifying depending on the country etc
It’s minefield
I think the current qualfiying is ok
Top 75 world rankings
Then various comps get entry for winners
Then local qualifiers etc
You could say
Winner of LiV Aus Open gets a spot
Winner of Japan open etc and have certain events elevated as Major qualfiying as well
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Thing is - the KFT is probably of a similar caliber of some of the other events hence why I included them!
And yeah Asian tour was part of the "other tours" area in my head.
It really is a minefield and I'm glad I'm not the one sorting it out
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Thing is - the KFT is probably of a similar caliber of some of the other events hence why I included them!
And yeah Asian tour was part of the "other tours" area in my head.
It really is a minefield and I'm glad I'm not the one sorting it out
The KFT is strong but it’s a development tour in the same way as the Challenge Tour etc - it would be like giving CL spots to teams in the Championship
It’s always going to be hard to split up places depending on tours
The Majors should be seperate from them
LIV will prob get some level of points to their events , adding to the Asian Tour events then the players that really do well will get entry into the majors through the rankings or qualifying comps
The majors do open up a spot to winners on yours and I think that’s where LIV could get entry in some way but I think it’s a long way from that, it really does need to fully establish itself.
Until then anyone not already qualified can do so via Asian Tour events or local qualifiers- Walton Heath for the US Open as an example , could be some big players turning up to regional qualifying
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Yeah listen to what Pelley actually says on the bunkered podcast though Phil! What I suggest a few posts ago is pretty close to what he himself says might happen!
Ranking points may just become defunct and a totally new system of qualification via your own tour set up.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Pelleys words are quite revealing in that pod. Kudos to him for being happy to talk, went well over the time allocated judging by the way the host kept offering to wrap things up, KP was clearly willing to keep making his points.
As well as OWGR points/major entry for the LIV players, it’s clear they don’t want to shut the door on any LIV guys competing in future Ryder Cups.. similar noises have come from the US side as well.
I think it’s just a matter of time until everybody sits down and finds a resolution - and from what Pelley said, I’d imagine that the DPWT would want a ‘retreat’ from the Asian Tour. They clearly know it’s a threat if the LIV guys start turning up to Asian Tour events in numbers, especially on European soil.
