LIV Golf

[Deleted member 15344]

Yeah listen to what Pelley actually says on the bunkered podcast though Phil! What I suggest a few posts ago is pretty close to what he himself says might happen!

Ranking points may just become defunct and a totally new system of qualification via your own tour set up.

The R&A , USGA , PGA of America and Augusta Committee will always look to be very neutral, they won’t change many things beyond what they currently do - entry into the majors have been pretty consistent over the years. The rankings were obviously created to help the majors for entry to ensure they find a way to get the best players in the majors.

I don’t expect them to defunct any ranking point system and to differentiate between tours - it would have the potential to have detrimental affects to the smaller tours - The Open for example tries to get as many more ET players into the Open than other majors.

It is a fine balance and right now the rankings aren’t great

When it comes to Pelley - will always believe he was the worst thing to happen to the tour - the guy has always been full of a lot of words and changing the ET to be the “DP World” was one of the worst things he did.

Hopefully he stays as far away as possible from the majors as possible.

The Ryder Cup will be interesting- thankfully Donald won’t be too worried as there isn’t really anyone on LIV that you would see on the on the European Team and after the recent ruling in court I don’t expect that to change. The US Team though - missing what you would think are 3/4 players that would be near the team - DJ , Koepka , BDC , Reed . What happens there will be key to going forward

So LIV got some key moments ahead - majors ( won’t change ) , ranking points and Ryder Cup

What happens with those could be key for LIV

 

[Bdill93]

The R&A , USGA , PGA of America and Augusta Committee will always look to be very neutral, they won’t change many things beyond what they currently do - entry into the majors have been pretty consistent over the years. The rankings were obviously created to help the majors for entry to ensure they find a way to get the best players in the majors.

I don’t expect them to defunct any ranking point system and to differentiate between tours - it would have the potential to have detrimental affects to the smaller tours - The Open for example tries to get as many more ET players into the Open than other majors.

It is a fine balance and right now the rankings aren’t great

When it comes to Pelley - will always believe he was the worst thing to happen to the tour - the guy has always been full of a lot of words and changing the ET to be the “DP World” was one of the worst things he did.

Hopefully he stays as far away as possible from the majors as possible.

The Ryder Cup will be interesting- thankfully Donald won’t be too worried as there isn’t really anyone on LIV that you would see on the on the European Team and after the recent ruling in court I don’t expect that to change. The US Team though - missing what you would think are 3/4 players that would be near the team - DJ , Koepka , BDC , Reed . What happens there will be key to going forward

So LIV got some key moments ahead - majors ( won’t change ) , ranking points and Ryder Cup

What happens with those could be key for LIV

Honestly all I can say is take 30 mins and go find and listen to the podcast. Pelley features after about 10 mins and lasts a good 40 or so - it really is quite fascinating if nothing else!

A guy at the OWGR table is literally saying that they're looking for a new/amended/different system as it doesn't work in its current state any more - and my suggestion of X players from X tour qualifying is discussed and suggested as a viable option.

 

[PJ87]

Honestly all I can say is take 30 mins and go find and listen to the podcast. Pelley features after about 10 mins and lasts a good 40 or so - it really is quite fascinating if nothing else!

A guy at the OWGR table is literally saying that they're looking for a new/amended/different system as it doesn't work in its current state any more - and my suggestion of X players from X tour qualifying is discussed and suggested as a viable option.

Look let's be serious if it's not on twitter it isn't a valid source of information

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Honestly all I can say is take 30 mins and go find and listen to the podcast. Pelley features after about 10 mins and lasts a good 40 or so - it really is quite fascinating if nothing else!

A guy at the OWGR table is literally saying that they're looking for a new/amended/different system as it doesn't work in its current state any more - and my suggestion of X players from X tour qualifying is discussed and suggested as a viable option.

I have no doubt that Pelley does say a lot and there will be some changes to the World Ranking - they mentioned that last year when they made the changes last year - looking at the history they seem to make changes regularly to try and find the balance and I suspect the next change will be hopefully a bit better than the current system

But entry into majors tbh has nothing to do with him and the tours and what the majors do will always be down to each governing body of those majors. If they do make changes it certainly won’t have anything to do with Pelley

The two used to be very much connected ( all started by the R&A ) that’s changed a lot and it’s now a different beast used by all the tours and entry in multiple different events including Tour Events

But it’s certainly going to be an interesting 18 months ahead - I’m not sure how they will please everyone and overall I think the biggest loser will be the ET again

Another Pro is now having his say as well

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650229777331101697

 

[Mel Smooth]

Another Pro is now having his say as well

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650229777331101697

He needs to reign it in. Given his ranking he should concentrate on making his own game stable. Sounds like he's just having a nag to me. He'd probably change tack if he was offered a place on LIV. He's probably saddled himself with a load of heat on twitter as well - hopefully it won't last furlong.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

He needs to reign it in. Given his ranking he should concentrate on making his own game stable. Sounds like he's just having a nag to me. He'd probably change tack if he was offered a place on LIV. He's probably saddled himself with a load of heat on twitter as well - hopefully it won't last furlong.

Surely as a ET member is more than entitled to speak up in defence of the tour he plays in week in week out - including going all the way to Australia to play in both the Aus Open and PGA

And his ranking is irrelevant - that comment just comes across as spiteful


And I have no doubt the LIV accounts like you are doubt pilling onto him - it’s part of their DNA and it happens anytime someone speaks up.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

He needs to rein it in. Given his ranking he should concentrate on making his own game stable. Sounds like he's just having a nag to me. He'd probably change tack if he was offered a place on LIV. He's probably saddled himself with a load of heat on twitter as well - hopefully it won't last furlong.

He has a point though. Some, not all, LIV’ers seem to want to play on their old tours. Yet have been very critical of them.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Fair enough. It’s all about perception I guess.
Mcilroy could be described in exactly the same manner as you are seeing Westwood.

I do wonder if some of what's happening with Westwood is because he's concerned about maintaining his position on LIV. He's clearly not one of the "star" names on the tour and is likely to be fairly well up towards the top of the list of players that would be dropped if they manage to attract some additional bigger names. I wonder if he's looked at that and thought that if he goes on Twitter to defend LIV at every opportunity then it might get him an extra season or two on the gravy train. If it came down to a choice of who to retain and who to drop maybe he thinks he's more likely to be in the former group if he's seen to be openly defending LIV and attacking the PGA tour and DP World tour.

 

[Backsticks]

Honestly all I can say is take 30 mins and go find and listen to the podcast. Pelley features after about 10 mins and lasts a good 40 or so - it really is quite fascinating if nothing else!

A guy at the OWGR table is literally saying that they're looking for a new/amended/different system as it doesn't work in its current state any more - and my suggestion of X players from X tour qualifying is discussed and suggested as a viable option.

They have to look at something new. The OWGR is broken. The difficulty though is the unmeritocratic element that is LIV. We all know there are 5 top rank golfers there who absolutely have to be in the majors. As I have said all along, there is no way they will not be in them - the majors are not going to devalue themselves voluntarily. And LIV has another 5-10 golfer who should be in a major field. But its ring fenced element is problematic. Wins on LIV arent reall worth anything, and its quality is distorted by entry being predominantly governed by who was willing to take the Sheik's Shilling rather then golfing rank. Which makes it hard to systematise how many LIVers should get into majors or where they should rank in a revised world ranking. The PT Barnum element to the LIV circus, taking it beyond true sport, is its very problem and weakness. People in some parts of the world may go to watch a novelty show, but the golf rankings and majors have to retain sporting credibility. Its a difficult circle to square.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I do wonder if some of what's happening with Westwood is because he's concerned about maintaining his position on LIV. He's clearly not one of the "star" names on the tour and is likely to be fairly well up towards the top of the list of players that would be dropped if they manage to attract some additional bigger names. I wonder if he's looked at that and thought that if he goes on Twitter to defend LIV at every opportunity then it might get him an extra season or two on the gravy train. If it came down to a choice of who to retain and who to drop maybe he thinks he's more likely to be in the former group if he's seen to be openly defending LIV and attacking the PGA tour and DP World tour.

Westwood will be a part owner of the team - that potentially protects him from being dropped, but if the Majesticks had the opportunity to bring in another player of quality, I'd imagine Lee would be the player to potentially step back - Horsfield is the lesser know of the team but he's had some good results this year. It's all part of what adds to the dynamic of the series - and I'd imagine the older players know they can't keep teeing it up forever. As the series grows, they'll move into running of the business rather than playing as team members - they'll have been fully aware of that when they agreed to join.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Westwood is an “interesting” one

We play a pro am each year and it’s run by Andrew Coltart - don’t need to say to much about what he has to say about him , and a few others with the same opinion about him

Not sure that is surprising considering he divorced Coltarts sister..
Take it you knew that ?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Westwood will be a part owner of the team - that potentially protects him from being dropped, but if the Majesticks had the opportunity to bring in another player of quality, I'd imagine Lee would be the player to potentially step back - Horsfield is the lesser know of the team but he's had some good results this year. It's all part of what adds to the dynamic of the series - and I'd imagine the older players know they can't keep teeing it up forever. As the series grows, they'll move into running of the business rather than playing as team members - they'll have been fully aware of that when they agreed to join.

Are they gifted a share in the ownership of the team or do they buy their share? Also if they decide that they want out can they sell their share or do they have to give it back to LIV?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Are they gifted a share in the ownership of the team or do they buy their share? Also if they decide that they want out can they sell their share or do they have to give it back to LIV?

Liv own 75%, the team captains own the remainder. I wouldn't know the financial details of how the team ownership is structured - I'd imagine if they want out, then they'd be expected to return a portion of their fees they received when they joined - potentially more if the business has grown.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Liv own 75%, the team captains own the remainder. I wouldn't know the financial details of how the team ownership is structured - I'd imagine if they want out, then they'd be expected to return a portion of their fees they received when they joined - potentially more if the business has grown.

Are these “franchises” actually real right now or is it just what potentially will happen?

Do they own “25%” of the name ? Where is the “value” and worth in the franchise. There is no money coming into the franchise - so what exactly do they own beyond a name and badge . 5 golfers don’t really make for a franchise.

And when the likes of Westwood and Co fizzle out who are they expecting to see come in and replace them.

 

[Beezerk]

Honestly all I can say is take 30 mins and go find and listen to the podcast. Pelley features after about 10 mins and lasts a good 40 or so - it really is quite fascinating if nothing else!

What did you make of his LIV players not being on the Ryder cup comments? He seemed a little ambiguous, iirc all he said was is if you didn’t play in the DP World Tour you wouldn’t be selected or be able to be captain, almost like he left it open for people to come back and be involved again.

 

[Backsticks]

What did you make of his LIV players not being on the Ryder cup comments? He seemed a little ambiguous, iirc all he said was is if you didn’t play in the DP World Tour you wouldn’t be selected or be able to be captain, almost like he left it open for people to come back and be involved again.

I think if LIV folded, despite the acrimony from some players, the tours themselves wouldnt gain from preventing reabsorbing those players, and so would find a way to do so. And that would lead to Ryder Cup eligibility being restored too. So purgatory for the moment, but salvation is not totally off the table. The PGAT and the World tour are not going to write off some of the good players on LIV at this stage, when its future is still so precarious.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Liv own 75%, the team captains own the remainder. I wouldn't know the financial details of how the team ownership is structured - I'd imagine if they want out, then they'd be expected to return a portion of their fees they received when they joined - potentially more if the business has grown.

I was thinking more longer term with regards to looking at an exit strategy rather than breaking an agreement. As an example, if Mickleson was given £200 million and signed a 5 year contract to represent LIV (careful there not to put "play" on LIV) and as part of that arrangement he's given a 25% share of his team. At the end of the 5 years Phil has decided that he's had enough and is going to retire. Can he phone up Patrick Cantlay (as a random example) and say "Do you want to buy the 25% of the franchise that I own on LIV?"

Another question I've got is that this season the players' winnings are being put back into the pot to cover the running costs of the teams with the profits at the end of the season then being split by the players on that team. With LIV owning 75% of each team does that mean that they get 75% of the winnings that each team earn during the season?

I've no idea if you, or anyone else, can actually answer these questions and I'm not wanting to come across as having a go or being negative about LIV, I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Beezerk]

I think if LIV folded, despite the acrimony from some players, the tours themselves wouldnt gain from preventing reabsorbing those players, and so would find a way to do so. And that would lead to Ryder Cup eligibility being restored too. So purgatory for the moment, but salvation is not totally off the table. The PGAT and the World tour are not going to write off some of the good players on LIV at this stage, when its future is still so precarious.

Yes I’d agree with that, I’m surprised it hasn’t been discussed more unless I’ve missed it between all the guff

 

[Mel Smooth]

I was thinking more longer term with regards to looking at an exit strategy rather than breaking an agreement. As an example, if Mickleson was given £200 million and signed a 5 year contract to represent LIV (careful there not to put "play" on LIV) and as part of that arrangement he's given a 25% share of his team. At the end of the 5 years Phil has decided that he's had enough and is going to retire. Can he phone up Patrick Cantlay (as a random example) and say "Do you want to buy the 25% of the franchise that I own on LIV?"

Another question I've got is that this season the players' winnings are being put back into the pot to cover the running costs of the teams with the profits at the end of the season then being split by the players on that team. With LIV owning 75% of each team does that mean that they get 75% of the winnings that each team earn during the season?

I've no idea if you, or anyone else, can actually answer these questions and I'm not wanting to come across as having a go or being negative about LIV, I'm genuinely interested.

Liv have actually given each team funds this year to cover their operating costs - obviously some teams will win a lot more than others and so therefore the value of the teams will increase. I doubt LIV will want a share of that money back - they are putting money in until it becomes self sustainable - so very much doubt they'd take back the money they put in in the first place.
If Mickelson decided to sell as in your example, I'd imagine that is pretty much how it would work - although he might not be selling to a player - it could just be a very rich businessman who wants a plaything.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Yes I’d agree with that, I’m surprised it hasn’t been discussed more unless I’ve missed it between all the guff

Pelley said that as long as players remain DPWT members, then they can be selected, or indeed qualify for the Ryder Cup - there have been no announcements of financial penalties for any of the DPWT players who played this weekend in Australia - but of course they can now enforce fines if they so wish. If Luke Donald wants to pick Thomas Pieters - he can.