Beezerk
Money List Winner
You mentioned other Middle East states and sports or did I imagine that. Are we not allowed to respond to your comments in case the whataboutary card is thrown in faux outrage?
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
You mentioned other Middle East states and sports or did I imagine that. Are we not allowed to respond to your comments in case the whataboutary card is thrown in faux outrage?
evemccc
Well-known member
You realise homosexuality is outlawed in Dubai, where McIlroy just won?
You realise the PGA Tour’s long-standing relationship with China….
China has by far the most state executions..
Do you understand the repression in Xinjiang - the most westernmost province, and Tibet as well as the overt bullying of Taiwan (watch this space for future conflict)
You say ‘whataboutery’ to everything @Liverpoolphil that doesn’t fit your narrative. I say ‘context’
I don’t support the Saudi regime one iota - who would??? But you can’t be front and centre cheerleader of the PGA Tour parade without understanding that your arguments are built on sand
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Who is “front and centre cheerleader” of the PGA tour ?
I’m not fan of the PGA tour
I’m not a fan of the ET selling out to DP to change the name
I’m not a fan of the golf being based in Dubai at the moment or the big final in Dubai
I’m not a fan of China ?
I’m a fan of Rory as a golfer and the way he plays golf
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Deleted member 1147
Guest
they were probably homeless
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
they were probably homeless
I get what you're saying....
Without getting political, I believe a cold blooded murder should be a life for a life.
Clearly there is a lot of things they do which is absolutely terrible.
But in my opinion this exposure might just help them change their ways with more eyes on them, it won't happen over night though.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Interesting comment.
Long before the World Cup, I do remember this sports washing debate. I seem to remember you bring up Formula 1. You preached to us that you had friends / family that are die hard F1 fans, but they refused to watch F1 races in the Middle East. It was a classic argument of "actually, we are better than that, and here is an example that our moral principles are greater than the sport we love, and so we can make a stand". Fair enough, if that is how they feel. But, I did remember asking you at the time if you'd be watching the World Cup. Instead of telling us what your morally superior friends and family do, what will you do?
You've now gone on record that you watched the World Cup because you enjoy the World Cup. It really made your preaching at the time seem hollow. How can you start pointing fingers at people in this forum for watching LIV, questioning their moral values, yet you are no different to anyone else?
Swango1980
Well-known member
Even though I don't like LIV, I'll try?
Do people who enjoy LIV also support human rights abuses? I'd be happy to say absolutely not, at least in this forum. They like LIV because of the golf. Maybe they also like the fact it shakes up golf generally?
If we completely ignore countries who abuse human rights, do you think they will change their ways? Or, will they continue doing what they do, whilst increasingly developing a bigger hatred for the west who do not acknowledge them? What human rights issues are OK and which are not? Is the death penalty OK generally, so it gives the USA a pass?
The way of life, and humans rights issues in the Middle East are way out of line what we consider acceptable. However, by trying to integrate societies when we can, then societies can evolve. I'm not concerned that the western society will revert back to the humans rights issues we committed in the past as they are similar to what goes on in the Middle East today. We have evolved, and are simply ahead or other parts of the world on this scale. Those in the Middle East are more likely to see how we live our lives, and hopefully change their ways. Furthermore, the humans rights issues ARE important and still play a part. The only real reason the west involve the Middle east in big sporting events is because the Middle East have to throw us HUGE amounts of money. The Middle East want the West to recognise them in this commercial world, so that going forward long term, the Middle East is seen as an attractive place for business. They'll want it to become sustainable sooner or later. Their humans right issues are forcing them to pay massive premiums. So, over time, I'd have thought they'd realise that if they become more liberal, then the west will become more and more open at doing business at much more reasonable prices.
doublebogey7
Head Pro
I was merely pointing out the difference which you have confirmed, the Saudi Royal Family own Aramco as a commercial operation not for politics.
I have no wish to have a discussion on this subject as Saudi Money has zero to do with why I'm not a supporter of LiV. I would oppose it wherever the we money came from if it was an attempt to buy a sport for political purposes.
D
Deleted member 21445
Guest
You for sure have the right to voice that very strong opinion and be respected even if you don't agree with it.
People also have the right to watch a golf tournament on TV if they want to and not have their character judged because they choose to..
r0wly86
Head Pro
No you don't, you do not have any right to say how other people judge your actions, people have their own moral codes and ethics, and I am free to judge anyone I like by my standards just as you are free to judge on your own
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Interesting thread from Flushing it.
After a long period of silence from LIV, I spoke with a member of senior management today who gave me some great info about the coming year that’ll I’ll outline in a thread. Despite the reports of chaos, it sounds as though the changes at the top have been a positive for them.
The 48 player roster should be announced next week with a few new signings. They expect more big names but the deals are still being finalised. These players have been selected by captains in conjunction with LIV and the captains will all be the same as last season.
There have been “lots” of players who have contacted LIV via agents etc and asked for big money to join but were turned away. We can speculate on who this is but I have been told from multiple sources of 1 vocal anti LIV guy who actually tried to get a move. (I won’t name them.)
They have some mainstream sponsors secured that’ll be announced in the coming weeks and expect it to be a “domino effect” now that the schedule and TV deals have been announced and player roster will be confirmed soon. International TV partners will be announced in coming weeks.
There will be team shirts this year beginning with polos with logos on in Mexico and moving on to more unique kits when apparel sponsors are confirmed. Replicas will be available to buy. Some of the players can’t wear the team gear yet due to existing clothing deals though.
There are 2 complete team rebrands of names and logos etc but every team will see big to moderate changes to their logos this year. I understand that the Fireballs will be keeping their name now. The team points system to qualify for the team finals is the same as last season.
The off season silence has been intentional as they generated so much noise last year that they didn’t want us to get LIV fatigue. The management changes affected things too but there’s been a lot going on behind the scenes and they’re ready to let the product do the talking now
Finally, they confirmed that they do not have any “paid for” or “bot” social media accounts so anyone pretending to be associated with LIV or an “insider” probably aren’t. I’m sure you know what I mean!
After a long period of silence from LIV, I spoke with a member of senior management today who gave me some great info about the coming year that’ll I’ll outline in a thread. Despite the reports of chaos, it sounds as though the changes at the top have been a positive for them.
The 48 player roster should be announced next week with a few new signings. They expect more big names but the deals are still being finalised. These players have been selected by captains in conjunction with LIV and the captains will all be the same as last season.
There have been “lots” of players who have contacted LIV via agents etc and asked for big money to join but were turned away. We can speculate on who this is but I have been told from multiple sources of 1 vocal anti LIV guy who actually tried to get a move. (I won’t name them.)
They have some mainstream sponsors secured that’ll be announced in the coming weeks and expect it to be a “domino effect” now that the schedule and TV deals have been announced and player roster will be confirmed soon. International TV partners will be announced in coming weeks.
There will be team shirts this year beginning with polos with logos on in Mexico and moving on to more unique kits when apparel sponsors are confirmed. Replicas will be available to buy. Some of the players can’t wear the team gear yet due to existing clothing deals though.
There are 2 complete team rebrands of names and logos etc but every team will see big to moderate changes to their logos this year. I understand that the Fireballs will be keeping their name now. The team points system to qualify for the team finals is the same as last season.
The off season silence has been intentional as they generated so much noise last year that they didn’t want us to get LIV fatigue. The management changes affected things too but there’s been a lot going on behind the scenes and they’re ready to let the product do the talking now
Finally, they confirmed that they do not have any “paid for” or “bot” social media accounts so anyone pretending to be associated with LIV or an “insider” probably aren’t. I’m sure you know what I mean!
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Deleted member 21445
Guest
I think the long silence has been odd.
Impossible to know if they have something up their sleeve or struggling for any meaningful signings.
I would errr on the latter seeing as we are getting so close to the Liv Golf season starting.
I cant wait to wear my replica LIV kit to Help4Heroes
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
I'm sure someone will throw a tee peg in your direction for such an offence
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
Mel, you need to get your marketing people to write better stories.
No wonder the logos are crap. They were designed by 8 year olds ?
No wonder the logos are crap. They were designed by 8 year olds ?
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Rent free........
I think the involvement of various questionable regimes and sources of money in many other sports has meant people dont really care too much, or at all, and certainly not to the extent of it making or breaking the sport.
The World Cup did go to Quatar, various sports go to countries - Russia, China, etc, - that one could raise all sorts of moral objections to. Nobody is boycotting Premiership teams, no matter who owns them or builds the new stadium.
That question is just a distraction in the LIV debate : the fundamental problem LIV has, is that at the moment at least, it is just a rubbish sport product.
The World Cup did go to Quatar, various sports go to countries - Russia, China, etc, - that one could raise all sorts of moral objections to. Nobody is boycotting Premiership teams, no matter who owns them or builds the new stadium.
That question is just a distraction in the LIV debate : the fundamental problem LIV has, is that at the moment at least, it is just a rubbish sport product.
The last part is your opinion, I’d argue that what we watched in Dubai was better than some PGA events and Other DPWT events, I’d always like to see the strongest fields, but rarely seems to happen bar the majors now.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Which is an absolutely fine view point
I respect people who attack Liv for poor product , rubbish field, not real good, not interest in the format
But the sports washing argument for the majority is overused by a lot of people as just a reason to bash it because they don't like it .
