LIV Golf

[BubbaP]

I was crediting the PGAT's actions recently, but not sure about this. Guess they have faith in the lawyers, but doing a good job of looking like an anti competition monopoly IMO.
Big org also...
https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/how-many-tours-does-the-pga-tour-run

 

[Mel Smooth]

No Phil, they're committed to 14 events a year. I mean, the poor souls - they must be horrified that they're forced to play so much golf....


Take everything away, the politics, the allegiance to existing tours, Greg Norman, and imagine you have to make a living playing golf.

You can either sign up to 14 events a year that you HAVE to play, and you are GUARANTEED to earn - what, at least £2 million ish.
Or,
You can sign up to playing when you want (with a minimum requirement to play in at least 20 events, where you have no financial guarantees.

Which one is the better offer?

 

[BubbaP]

That’s very key though isn’t it - they can’t ,

GN states that they are independent contractors etc and can play where they want but that’s not strictly true is it

LiV dictate who plays in their events and the contractors must play in every single LIV event , players are unable to qualify

Anyone can attempt to qualify to play in any of the other tours and only then are required to play a minimum to keep a tour card

One tours seems a more close shop than all the others

I think you have missed some points there Phil. LIV has never pretended to be a tour, it has always been up front that it is a league where as you say players are contracted to play.
PGAT didn't want to go that route, but arguably operates in a similar way - employees or contractors?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I was crediting the PGAT's actions recently, but not sure about this. Guess they have faith in the lawyers, but doing a good job of looking like an anti competition monopoly IMO.
Big org also...
https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/how-many-tours-does-the-pga-tour-run

Surely having development tours in neighbouring countries is a good pathway into high level golf , seems a very good thing to do

And surely with them administering those developmental tours they can apply restrictions on players ?‍

No Phil, they're committed to 14 events a year. I mean, the poor souls - they must be horrified that they're forced to play so much golf....


Take everything away, the politics, the allegiance to existing tours, Greg Norman, and imagine you have to make a living playing golf.

You can either sign up to 14 events a year that you HAVE to play, and you are GUARANTEED to earn - what, at least £2 million ish.
Or,
You can sign up to playing when you want (with a minimum requirement to play in at least 20 events, where you have no financial guarantees.

Which one is the better offer?

How can a player just sign up to play 14 LIV events ?‍

Surely they have to be invited and then some are only invited at a certain level and some get more money than others regardless of how they play ?‍

A LIV player is not an independent contractor and can’t play where ever he wants - he must play the LIV event and not miss it if he fancies playing on the ET or PGA that week

Why don’t they just open the LIV events to anyone and Award on performances ?‍

 

[doublebogey7]

Saw that earlier - I mean - if they had total confidence in their own product, the PGAT wouldn't need to do that.

Jay out.

More spin, you seem to forget that LiV has banned everyone unless they get an invite. If LiV were confident in their product they would make their events open.

 

[Swango1980]

No Phil, they're committed to 14 events a year. I mean, the poor souls - they must be horrified that they're forced to play so much golf....


Take everything away, the politics, the allegiance to existing tours, Greg Norman, and imagine you have to make a living playing golf.

You can either sign up to 14 events a year that you HAVE to play, and you are GUARANTEED to earn - what, at least £2 million ish.
Or,
You can sign up to playing when you want (with a minimum requirement to play in at least 20 events, where you have no financial guarantees.

Which one is the better offer?

No one is disputing this. The guaranteed minimum of £2million is fantastic, especially for a golfer not likely to get anywhere near this anywhere else. Sure, you lose out on sporting integrity as it's a closed shop, but it pays well.

So, let them play their 14 events for millions. Then they can stay away from the other tours, and let the other guys play and struggle to make a living.

If they play their 14 events and 4 Majors, they play 18 events a year, and have plenty of time to practice, spend time with families, etc. Living the dream, no need to get sad

 

[Mel Smooth]

We’ve discussed the entry criteria for Liv v PGAT to death chaps.

If you don’t want to discuss todays petty decision by the PGAT that’s fair enough, but I’m not going over the same old discussion again.

 

[evemccc]

I think what is being missed is the culture of what LIV is being born into—US sports culture, in which the organisational structure is a closed-shop of sports franchises. True in the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB

It’s clear what it is, and what it’s not…

 

[doublebogey7]

We’ve discussed the entry criteria for Liv v PGAT to death chaps.

If you don’t want to discuss todays petty decision by the PGAT that’s fair enough, but I’m not going over the same old discussion again.

That'd exactly what to do in my reply, but as usual you refuse to engage because you were name calling.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I think what is being missed is the culture of what LIV is being born into—US sports culture, in which the organisational structure is a closed-shop of sports franchises. True in the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB

It’s clear what it is, and what it’s not…

Indeed, the bottom line is, if you're very good at golf, you might make it to the lower echelons of the PGAT / Korn Ferry ladder.

If you're very, very good at golf, you might make it to the top of that ladder, or you may get a spot in LIV - you may even qualify through the option that they have to do so.

LIV isn't different to the others by mistake, nor by accident.

 

[Mel Smooth]

That'd exactly what to do in my reply, but as usual you refuse to engage because you were name calling.

Name calling?

You want to compare LIV entry requirements to banning young players from the PGAT.
Nobody is banned from LIV, if they are, name them.
I can name plenty of people that the PGAT have already banned.

 

[evemccc]

No one is disputing this. The guaranteed minimum of £2million is fantastic, especially for a golfer not likely to get anywhere near this anywhere else. Sure, you lose out on sporting integrity as it's a closed shop, but it pays well.

So, let them play their 14 events for millions. Then they can stay away from the other tours, and let the other guys play and struggle to make a living.

If they play their 14 events and 4 Majors, they play 18 events a year, and have plenty of time to practice, spend time with families, etc. Living the dream, no need to get sad

Try telling an American basketball fan that Steph Curry and Lebron James, have “no sporting integrity”, or NFL New England Patriot fans, that their prolific SuperBowl success is meaningless..

 

[HeftyHacker]

More spin, you seem to forget that LiV has banned everyone unless they get an invite. If LiV were confident in their product they would make their events open.

That would bugger up their whole team vibe though wouldn't it?

One idea I had is If they had 3 contracted players per team, and a preceeding qualifying event on the Wednesday/thursday where the top 12 "qualified" and got a place in the main event, perhaps allocated to the teams via a draft system. How would that sit with folk?

Would that tick the qualifying route and open it up to all (within reason) who fancy a pop?

Not sure how it would work for the team final mind...

 

[Mel Smooth]

That would bugger up their whole team vibe though wouldn't it?

One idea I had is If they had 3 contracted players per team, and a preceeding qualifying event on the Wednesday/thursday where the top 12 "qualified" and got a place in the main event, perhaps allocated to the teams via a draft system. How would that sit with folk?

Would that tick the qualifying route and open it up to all (within reason) who fancy a pop?

Not sure how it would work for the team final mind...

I'd imagine if there was an agreement in place with the PGAT as Greg probably wanted, that would have been a likely scenario.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Name calling?

You want to compare LIV entry requirements to banning young players from the PGAT.
Nobody is banned from LIV, if they are, name them.
I can name plenty of people that the PGAT have already banned.

ban young players ?

“An “unauthorized tournament” is defined in the player handbook as “any golf event for which the commissioner has denied or has indicated he would deny all conflicting event releases and/or media releases or not eligible for releases because it is to be held in North America.”

There was nothing about young players ?

It was any player who plays in a LIV event can’t then go and play on the PGAT for a year

What’s the issue ?

If the LIV Tour is that good financially for them all then they don’t need to be worried about not being able to play on another tour

 

[Mel Smooth]

ban young players ?

“An “unauthorized tournament” is defined in the player handbook as “any golf event for which the commissioner has denied or has indicated he would deny all conflicting event releases and/or media releases or not eligible for releases because it is to be held in North America.”

There was nothing about young players ?

It was any player who plays in a LIV event can’t then go and play on the PGAT for a year

What’s the issue ?

If the LIV Tour is that good financially for them all then they don’t need to be worried about not being able to play on another tour

Amazingly, you've manged to cut and paste multiple paragraphs from the article while ignoring the bits which outline how it would affect young players - those on the KFT and at College, players like Eugenio Chacarra for example, who is undoubtedly a motivating factor in the PGAT decision. They lost a good player to LIV there, and now he will pay for it....

 

[Swango1980]

Try telling an American basketball fan that Steph Curry and Lebron James, have “no sporting integrity”, or NFL New England Patriot fans, that their prolific SuperBowl success is meaningless..

I know little about American sports. However, if you are one of the best basketballers in the world, you go and play in the USA. The biggest teams will sign you up. So, I guess there is sporting integrity there.

Not true with LIV. A bit like Saudi Arabia signing up Lebron James and a few others, earning even more, and then trying to claim they are the best basketball league in the world

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Amazingly, you've manged to cut and paste multiple paragraphs from the article while ignoring the bits which outline how it would affect young players - those on the KFT and at College, players like Eugenio Chacarra for example, who is undoubtedly a motivating factor in the PGAT decision. They lost a good player to LIV there, and now he will pay for it....

But it’s not just “banning young players” - it’s banning “everyone” who plays on LIV , that includes Richard Bland

It’s more spin

it won’t affect anyone on the KFT or at College currently

Again spin

The only people it affects is the handful that went LIV

Chacarra made a choice to go to LIV and the money , he knew just like all the others there would be consequences of that decision. He clearly isn’t bothered about playing on the PGAT

 

[Mel Smooth]

But it’s not just “banning young players” - it’s banning “everyone” who plays on LIV , that includes Richard Bland

It’s more spin

it won’t affect anyone on the KFT or at College currently

Again spin

The only people it affects is the handful that went LIV

Chacarra made a choice to go to LIV and the money , he knew just like all the others there would be consequences of that decision. He clearly isn’t bothered about playing on the PGAT

If it doesn't affect anybody, other than those that went to LIV, why have they done it?


Maybe they just did it so they could get some bad press - seemingly you think there's no other reason....

 

[doublebogey7]

Name calling?

You want to compare LIV entry requirements to banning young players from the PGAT.
Nobody is banned from LIV, if they are, name them.
I can name plenty of people that the PGAT have already banned.

It is pretty simple really players are banned from LiV if they are not invited, it matters not whether you are good enough it compete against their select players you simply cannot play. So I'll give you a name and he is currently the best player in the world.

Yes I know the LiV model is different from the PGAT/DPWT/Asian Tour. But how in any way should that stop me from critising the hypocracy of your stance, while allowing you an open field on critisising the PGAT or DPWT.