LIV Golf

[Swango1980]

Yes.
I am fully aware / it is my opinion that LIV would have got the biggest 54 names in golf / best players (obvs these are different - but also not always necessarily mutually exclusive) if it could have done…

If LIV had wanted the top 48 (is it still a field of 48?) golfers in the world at the time it launched, then indeed they COULD have invited those guys to play on LIV. Realistically, they'd have still probably wanted the likes of Tiger, Mickleson and a few others they think will make it more marketable. However, let us be as generous as we can be to LIV, and say they invited the Top 48 golfers. Let us say they all said Yes. There could be no argument the quality of the field is very high at that moment.

But, if you were the 49th best player in the world, the 69th, the 109th, etc, how can they qualify? What method would LIV use to ensure all golfers have a fair chance to qualify for LIV? Who would they kick off LIV? Will it depend on their contract value, or how they are performing on the golf course? If LIV were just selecting players on World Rankings, how would that be done. Even before LIV, there would be debates as to how accurate the World Rankings are, hence why there are multiple ways to qualify for PGAT. After LIV, there would be a much greater separation between LIV players and others, with LIV players generally focusing on LIV events. So, how can we fairly assess whether the 48th best golfer in the world that joined LIV, is still better than the 49th best player in the world once LIV events got going? Would there be a promotion / relegation instead, where the bottom 10 LIV guys, for example, would lose their spot and the top 10 outside LIV would take their place? Regardless of contract values?

And, to be honest, all of that is just questioning how qualification COULD happen, or not. But, it isn't what actually happens. There is no proper system to qualify. It is subject to an invite, where clearly the very best few golfers in the world would not go unnoticed and probably get invited. The likes of McIlroy, Spieth, Thomas, Cantlay, etc. The likes of Woods would get invited based on his achievements. But, further down the pecking order, when you are filling those last few slots of 48, there will be plenty of golfers who think they are deserving based on performances, but will never get that call.

 

[Bdill93]

If LIV had wanted the top 48 (is it still a field of 48?) golfers in the world at the time it launched, then indeed they COULD have invited those guys to play on LIV. Realistically, they'd have still probably wanted the likes of Tiger, Mickleson and a few others they think will make it more marketable. However, let us be as generous as we can be to LIV, and say they invited the Top 48 golfers. Let us say they all said Yes. There could be no argument the quality of the field is very high at that moment.

But, if you were the 49th best player in the world, the 69th, the 109th, etc, how can they qualify? What method would LIV use to ensure all golfers have a fair chance to qualify for LIV? Who would they kick off LIV? Will it depend on their contract value, or how they are performing on the golf course? If LIV were just selecting players on World Rankings, how would that be done. Even before LIV, there would be debates as to how accurate the World Rankings are, hence why there are multiple ways to qualify for PGAT. After LIV, there would be a much greater separation between LIV players and others, with LIV players generally focusing on LIV events. So, how can we fairly assess whether the 48th best golfer in the world that joined LIV, is still better than the 49th best player in the world once LIV events got going? Would there be a promotion / relegation instead, where the bottom 10 LIV guys, for example, would lose their spot and the top 10 outside LIV would take their place? Regardless of contract values?

And, to be honest, all of that is just questioning how qualification COULD happen, or not. But, it isn't what actually happens. There is no proper system to qualify. It is subject to an invite, where clearly the very best few golfers in the world would not go unnoticed and probably get invited. The likes of McIlroy, Spieth, Thomas, Cantlay, etc. The likes of Woods would get invited based on his achievements. But, further down the pecking order, when you are filling those last few slots of 48, there will be plenty of golfers who think they are deserving based on performances, but will never get that call.

Using your ideas here as a basis and ill stress I obviously know its not currently a feasible suggestion -

LIV could have invited the world top 40 and made it clear that the bottom 10 would be cut after the end of the season. They would be replaced by the next highest 10 OWGR ranking golfers - running in cycle year on year. (I assume a cut off date would need to be set but Augusta manage it okay) unless of course they were in that top 40 still due to playing well on other tours - therefore no cut.

8 places go to "sponsors choice" players every year too, so I'm thinking Tiger, Phil and basically either older players with a following OR younger players that draw a crowd/ big social media influence.

Tournaments would run pretty much as they are now in golfing terms, yearly drafts for teams could still happen, big prize pots and shotgun starts.

Its what should have happened in the first place, LIV fighting the PGA tour was always a dumb move in my mind, they should have tried to be a "rolex series" type thing but they didnt.. and here we are

 

[cleveland52]

Lets be real.....even if LIV Golf had the best 48 players in the world, no one would watch them play team golf with a shotgun start in shorts.

 

[Mel Smooth]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621003508110573568

There’s a little more info in the thread if anybody wants to follow the link.

 

[Bdill93]

Lets be real.....even if LIV Golf had the best 48 players in the world, no one would watch them play team golf with a shotgun start in shorts.

Yes they would (bar those opposed to PIF) - every field would have a talent level that would be insane.

 

[Swango1980]

Using your ideas here as a basis and ill stress I obviously know its not currently a feasible suggestion -

LIV could have invited the world top 40 and made it clear that the bottom 10 would be cut after the end of the season. They would be replaced by the next highest 10 OWGR ranking golfers - running in cycle year on year. (I assume a cut off date would need to be set but Augusta manage it okay) unless of course they were in that top 40 still due to playing well on other tours - therefore no cut.

8 places go to "sponsors choice" players every year too, so I'm thinking Tiger, Phil and basically either older players with a following OR younger players that draw a crowd/ big social media influence.

Tournaments would run pretty much as they are now in golfing terms, yearly drafts for teams could still happen, big prize pots and shotgun starts.

Its what should have happened in the first place, LIV fighting the PGA tour was always a dumb move in my mind, they should have tried to be a "rolex series" type thing but they didnt.. and here we are

Absolutely.

Had they invited the top 48 in the world (or top 40 and 8 invites, for example), then those top players would qualify. If any of those players don't want to play, just keep asking people on the next rung of the world rankings. At the end of each season, they could promote a reasonable number of people outside LIV, and replace the worst guys on LIV from that year. Some could be direct replacements, others could be head to head play offs between the guys risking losing a spot, and those wanting to take it off them. For those guys wanting to join LIV, they could partly be selected by current world ranking, or you could also have some open qualifiers as well (to account for the fact world rankings won't ever be 1005 accurate)

There would be lots of ways to do it, but there are feasible methods in which the "qualification" argument against LIV could have been resolved.

However, that is not ultimately what happened. Whether LIV changes in the future to properly address it, who knows. It might be a long time coming, as there seems to be an arrogance on their part by pretty much saying "there is no problem", so would they want to be seen to u-turn?

But, if that argument was knocked out of the water, then it leaves us to focus more on the golf. As I've said before, I'm no fan of shot gun starts. As you get to the business end of the tournament, and you are watching a closely bunched leaderboard, it can be confusing and misleading. Three holes to go, taking players tied at the top, I don't know if one player has a tough par 3 and two long par 4's, while another player has 2 par 5's and a drivable par 4. It is easy to lose focus on what is going on. As golf is played on other tours, you can see how many holes they have left and you can build a picture of what those closing holes are. You know where the birdie opportunities are, where the risk and reward holes are and where the holes are in which they are just desperate to scrape a par. I just don't find a shot gun start overly engaging as a spectator, personally.

 

[Bdill93]

Absolutely.

Had they invited the top 48 in the world (or top 40 and 8 invites, for example), then those top players would qualify. If any of those players don't want to play, just keep asking people on the next rung of the world rankings. At the end of each season, they could promote a reasonable number of people outside LIV, and replace the worst guys on LIV from that year. Some could be direct replacements, others could be head to head play offs between the guys risking losing a spot, and those wanting to take it off them. For those guys wanting to join LIV, they could partly be selected by current world ranking, or you could also have some open qualifiers as well (to account for the fact world rankings won't ever be 1005 accurate)

There would be lots of ways to do it, but there are feasible methods in which the "qualification" argument against LIV could have been resolved.

However, that is not ultimately what happened. Whether LIV changes in the future to properly address it, who knows. It might be a long time coming, as there seems to be an arrogance on their part by pretty much saying "there is no problem", so would they want to be seen to u-turn?

But, if that argument was knocked out of the water, then it leaves us to focus more on the golf. As I've said before, I'm no fan of shot gun starts. As you get to the business end of the tournament, and you are watching a closely bunched leaderboard, it can be confusing and misleading. Three holes to go, taking players tied at the top, I don't know if one player has a tough par 3 and two long par 4's, while another player has 2 par 5's and a drivable par 4. It is easy to lose focus on what is going on. As golf is played on other tours, you can see how many holes they have left and you can build a picture of what those closing holes are. You know where the birdie opportunities are, where the risk and reward holes are and where the holes are in which they are just desperate to scrape a par. I just don't find a shot gun start overly engaging as a spectator, personally.

They do put the leading guys out last/ on the first tee to be fair.. In London they had 2 groups starting on 1st tee - which actually left a couple of holes with no one starting on them - I think (but cant remember perfectly) that they were the leading players that weekend. DJ was in one of the two groups anyway

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621003508110573568

There’s a little more info in the thread if anybody wants to follow the link.

So
1. they love the money , well we all know that

2. They love the time off why do most of them look to play on other tours and taking tours to court to allow them to play on other tours

 

[Bdill93]

So
1. they love the money , well we all know that

2. They love the time off why do most of them look to play on other tours and taking tours to court to allow them to play on other tours

Why wouldn't they want to test themselves against other great golfers from time to time? Maybe they want to warm up in a few events before a LIV event. Lots of factors! Some will, some wont!

Bryson for example doesn't seem too fussed about travelling for other tours - he's gone down the youtube route. Same with DJ (bar youtube)

Reed however seems to want to play everywhere leaving 4 aces tees in his wake

 

[evemccc]

Lol, what a bizarre argument from the liv guy! For all its faults, at least the PGA tour is true competitive sport where anyone who's good enough has the opportunity to play their way onto it.

The very fact there's so much chat about the possibility of Anthony Kim teeing up on Liv shows it's more WWE style entertainment than sport.

Who is “the LIV guy”?

 

[PJ87]

Why wouldn't they want to test themselves against other great golfers from time to time? Maybe they want to warm up in a few events before a LIV event. Lots of factors! Some will, some wont!

Bryson for example doesn't seem too fussed about travelling for other tours - he's gone down the youtube route. Same with DJ (bar youtube)

Reed however seems to want to play everywhere leaving 4 aces tees in his wake

Sounds like having more choice wasn't almost part of their reasons ...

Reed plays (and cheats) much as he wants

DJ plays when he wants

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why wouldn't they want to test themselves against other great golfers from time to time? Maybe they want to warm up in a few events before a LIV event. Lots of factors! Some will, some wont!

Bryson for example doesn't seem too fussed about travelling for other tours - he's gone down the youtube route. Same with DJ (bar youtube)

Reed however seems to want to play everywhere leaving 4 aces tees in his wake

So they had all that before with the PGA or ET

They could pick and choose when they played

The one difference is clear - money

Why can’t you just stop with all the other lies and state it exactly how we all know it is - money

 

[Mel Smooth]

Liverpool supporter questions ethics of sportspeople chasing money. Brilliant.

Surprised your morals don’t drive you to support Accrington Stanley Phil. ;-)

Of course it’s money, and a better quality of life. What do you want them to be… PGA Tour martyrs?

 

[BrianM]

So they had all that before with the PGA or ET

They could pick and choose when they played

The one difference is clear - money

Why can’t you just stop with all the other lies and state it exactly how we all know it is - money

Off course it’s about money, If you’re earning 80k a year and a new start up company offers you 160k a year with better Terms and Condition, better pension etc, you’d take the job, No?

There obviously other factors but money makes the world go round.

 

[evemccc]

So they had all that before with the PGA or ET

They could pick and choose when they played

The one difference is clear - money

Why can’t you just stop with all the other lies and state it exactly how we all know it is - money

It’s obvious that it’s the guaranteed money that is the overwhelming reason for the vast majority of LIV golfers

It’s obvious that it is almost exclusively a closed-shop
But isn’t it equally glaringly obvious that it is ‘money’ to the top players / big names — whether through PIP or through changes in prize money % — that is the prime driver for the changes to the PGA Tour that is the ‘Hollowing out’ of the middle/bottom tiers of the PGA Tour - whilst the richest get richer

Equally as true @Liverpoolphil

 

[PJ87]

Off course it’s about money, If you’re earning 80k a year and a new start up company offers you 160k a year with better Terms and Condition, better pension etc, you’d take the job, No?

There obviously other factors but money makes the world go round.

More money less work? A lot of people will sign up for that

Some don't care for money

Rory wants to do his own thing he rich as hell and wants to become even better rather than just richer

Respect both the models

 

[doublebogey7]

Liverpool supporter questions ethics of sportspeople chasing money. Brilliant.

Surprised your morals don’t drive you to support Accrington Stanley Phil. ;-)

Of course it’s money, and a better quality of life. What do you want them to be… PGA Tour martyrs?

Sorry but Phil is not at all moralising about money, he's simply pointing out the truth and that thy all went purely and simply for the dosh and eveything else, is simply guff. Nothing at all wrong with with the real reason had I been good enough (not a chance) who knows , I may have taken the same route, but I damn well know I would have been completely honest about it unlike most of those that have gone to LiV.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Liverpool supporter questions ethics of sportspeople chasing money. Brilliant.

Surprised your morals don’t drive you to support Accrington Stanley Phil. ;-)

Of course it’s money, and a better quality of life. What do you want them to be… PGA Tour martyrs?

Sorry but what does the team I support have to do with anything

yes it is just money so why do they have keep trying to justify its beyond the money

 

[doublebogey7]

It’s obvious that it’s the guaranteed money that is the overwhelming reason for the vast majority of LIV golfers

It’s obvious that it is almost exclusively a closed-shop
But isn’t it equally glaringly obvious that it is ‘money’ to the top players / big names — whether through PIP or through changes in prize money % — that is the prime driver for the changes to the PGA Tour that is the ‘Hollowing out’ of the middle/bottom tiers of the PGA Tour - whilst the richest get richer

Equally as true @Liverpoolphil

I whole heartingly agree, but I am a little confused here, as a LiV supporter you can't seriously be saying that is a bad thing given that it is they who have driven it. In my view it is another reason not to support LiV

 

[Bdill93]

So they had all that before with the PGA or ET

They could pick and choose when they played

The one difference is clear - money

Why can’t you just stop with all the other lies and state it exactly how we all know it is - money

I assume you mean the players stop with their lies because I'm only hypothesizing.

Of course its money! Less work and more pay!

But all LIV players aren't the same, as stated, some clearly want money coming in from every angle they can - Reed being the biggest example. And some like Bryson & DJ, seem to be playing where they're allowed to and finding other ways to spend their newfound free time too.

In actual fact, I cant remember much being said by DJ, he's literally just chilling