LIV Golf

[r0wly86]

LIV is not even one year old, how on earth would they have sponsors for something that didn’t exist 12 months back - that doesn’t mean they won’t in the future.

The PIF is financially integrated globally on a level that the PGA tour can only dream of. I’d imagine there are plenty to f discussions going on to bring some of those business partners on board, but Rome was not built in a day.

any sensible business venture would have tried to sort out sponsorship, ranking points, television deals etc before peeing off every other golfing institute by declaring you are the biggest tour around and stealing other tour players

 

[BrianM]

any sensible business venture would have tried to sort out sponsorship, ranking points, television deals etc before peeing off every other golfing institute by declaring you are the biggest tour around and stealing other tour players

Stealing other tour players ???
What a statement that is ??

 

[Deleted member 21445]

The problem is they can’t get any sort of media at all - they even tried to buy airtime in the US

Yes your absolutely right but right now they dont need the money, it doesnt need to turn a profit.
They have committed 2 billion to get it off the ground and burned through a good chunk of that already.

If they are committed to getting it established which they say they are and its going to take another billion , no problem its pocket change for them.

If by the start of the 2024 season they

• Have no TV deal (USA/UK) They already have TV deals in other countries round the world
• No sponsors
• No team franchises
• No OWGR points

Then some serious questions are going to be asked about its future and whether PIF is prepared to fund another year.

But those questions are not for now because they are not in that place yet.

They will be hoping that after another season, where im sure they are hoping to sign more top talent to their ranks and that they will make more progress on the above for 2024.

Dont make the mistake of thinking 2023 has to be a huge success and is a make or break year as 2023 is still part of the building phase.
I think because of what they have achieved in such a small space of time people forget they are only 8 events old, after 2023 they will still be only 23 events old as a tour.

Also right now we have no idea where they are at, they may have no new signings, they may have some top 10 players already signed up.
They may have team franchises already sold for multi millions, they may have interested parties they may have none.
Its so hard to gauge where Liv really is at right now.

Right now they will try and get on any UK and USA TV network with whatever deal they can get whether it be free or they pay for airtime.
Like I mentioned before the Ryder Cup was once in a place where ABC were prepared to pay the PGA 1 million dollars NOT to broadcast the event, that was a shed load of money in 1983.

This is all going to take more time to shake out and know where the pro golfing eco system really is at.

Interestingly and correct me if im wrong but far more pros saying their world is better off for Liv coming along then those saying its ruined ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

any sensible business venture would have tried to sort out sponsorship, ranking points, television deals etc before peeing off every other golfing institute by declaring you are the biggest tour around and stealing other tour players

So is the arrangement to take the 10 best players on the DPWT to the PGAT not stealing them then, or is it acceptable because the players will have the opportunity to play on a more lucrative tour?

The only tours LIV have ‘peed’ off are those two above, and I dare say without the mutual agreement between the two, the DPWT could have kicked on to challenge the PGAT, had they negotiated a better position with LIV, but I’m guessing that wasn’t in Keith Pelleys best interests.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes your absolutely right but right now they dont need the money, it doesnt need to turn a profit.
They have committed 2 billion to get it off the ground and burned through a good chunk of that already.

If they are committed to getting it established which they say they are and its going to take another billion , no problem its pocket change for them.

If by the start of the 2024 season they

• Have no TV deal (USA/UK) They already have TV deals in other countries round the world
• No sponsors
• No team franchises
• No OWGR points

Then some serious questions are going to be asked about its future and whether PIF is prepared to fund another year.

But those questions are not for now because they are not in that place yet.

They will be hoping that after another season, where im sure they are hoping to sign more top talent to their ranks and that they will make more progress on the above for 2024.

Dont make the mistake of thinking 2023 has to be a huge success and is a make or break year as 2023 is still part of the building phase.
I think because of what they have achieved in such a small space of time people forget they are only 8 events old, after 2023 they will still be only 23 events old as a tour.

Also right now we have no idea where they are at, they may have no new signings, they may have some top 10 players already signed up.
They may have team franchises already sold for multi millions, they may have interested parties they may have none.
Its so hard to gauge where Liv really is at right now.

Right now they will try and get on any UK and USA TV network with whatever deal they can get whether it be free or they pay for airtime.
Like I mentioned before the Ryder Cup was once in a place where ABC were prepared to pay the PGA 1 million dollars NOT to broadcast the event, that was a shed load of money in 1983.

This is all going to take more time to shake out and know where the pro golfing eco system really is at.

Interestingly and correct me if im wrong but far more pros saying their world is better off for Liv coming along then those saying its ruined ?

What’s going to change to bring in the sponsers and media companies?

There isn’t many “big” names that attract everyone beyond Woods , Rory maybe Rahm - but the first two are the big fish that bring in the big stuff - the likes of Spieth , Thomas and Co are the next rung down

LIV have prob got the biggest players they can get - even if they get some level of ranking points they are going to very low level that’s not going to make much difference

It’s chicken and the egg time

Sponsers need exposure but LIV are limited with their exposure

Any sponser also only gets half the amount of golf

There are loads of questions and the answers should have happened before they started the Tour in the first place

Ranking points
Media rights
Sponsers

All should have been sorted before the first event - but LIV have the arrogant Greg Norman running and he clearly things all they need is money

There is nothing new played for 23 that’s different, doesn’t seem to be any further big players leaving , I doubt they will even be able sell all their ticket for any event

So how is it going to progress to be a viable tour

So is the arrangement to take the 10 best players on the DPWT to the PGAT not stealing them then, or is it acceptable because the players will have the opportunity to play on a more lucrative tour?

The only tours LIV have ‘peed’ off are those two above, and I dare say without the mutual agreement between the two, the DPWT could have kicked on to challenge the PGAT, had they negotiated a better position with LIV, but I’m guessing that wasn’t in Keith Pelleys best interests.

Players have looked to earn a tour card on the next tour up for decades , the PGAT is the pinnacle tour in golf , it opens doors to every single big competition in the sport and enables players to compete in majors , WGC’s , the historic competitions and Ryder Cups

The ET will never be able to challenge at the same level as the PGAT

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Some incredible quotes on Alan Shipnucks latest podcast.

Jay Monahan confirming in different words the PIP is just a slush fund to keep their top stars happy, even though it states a minimum number of events must be played that's actually not the case saying he has disgression on the decision so he can basically give millions to Tiger.

A.S asked for another sit down with Greg Norman for his upcoming Liv Golf book and was refused saying Greg can't help himself making incendiary comments when poked by the press that doesn't serve them well.

Sentry field at Kapulua was the strongest ever but the viewing figures were massively down, this wasn't a slight on the PGA Tour but their thought is people are getting sick of pro golf across the board with all the politics and bickering.

Fire Drill Podcast, well worth a listen..

 

[Mel Smooth]

Some incredible quotes on Alan Shipnucks latest podcast.

Jay Monahan confirming in different words the PIP is just a slush fund to keep their top stars happy, even though it states a minimum number of events must be played that's actually not the case saying he has disgression on the decision so he can basically give millions to Tiger.

A.S asked for another sit down with Greg Norman for his upcoming Liv Golf book and was refused saying Greg can't help himself making incendiary comments when poked by the press that doesn't serve them well.

Sentry field at Kapulua was the strongest ever but the viewing figures were massively down, this wasn't a slight on the PGA Tour but their thought is people are getting sick of pro golf across the board with all the politics and bickering.

Fire Drill Podcast, well worth a listen..

People have been divided - and asked to pick a side, both the PGAT and LIV are of course party to this - but it needn't be the case. I'll watch whatever I fancy, regardless of who is playing where, but you can tell from this thread that some people won't be so accepting.

Most of the comments I saw about the Sentry were bemoaning the quality of the coverage, and that it was mainly showing guys putting and not much else - although that could have just been the US coverage, I didn't watch it so not sure. And of course, the OWGR debacle has exposed all these events that are no cut / invitationals - which is a stick used to beat LIV with - so potentially reducing the credibility of some of these PGAT events by default.

Pleased Rahm won though, I like him as a golfer, and he's a good statesman for the game.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

People have been divided - and asked to pick a side, both the PGAT and LIV are of course party to this - but it needn't be the case. I'll watch whatever I fancy, regardless of who is playing where, but you can tell from this thread that some people won't be so accepting.

Most of the comments I saw about the Sentry were bemoaning the quality of the coverage, and that it was mainly showing guys putting and not much else - although that could have just been the US coverage, I didn't watch it so not sure. And of course, the OWGR debacle has exposed all these events that are no cut / invitationals - which is a stick used to beat LIV with - so potentially reducing the credibility of some of these PGAT events by default.

Pleased Rahm won though, I like him as a golfer, and he's a good statesman for the game.

I thought the coverage was pretty good, the new drone cameras were fantastic at The Sentry.

Still early in the season' I'm sure the figures will go up when the iconic events start with the LA Open at Riviera.

Make no mistake those iconic PGAT events are fantastic and the Liv events fill in the gaps in between.

Liv very sensibly have not gone head to head against those brilliant events.

 

[cleveland52]

Sky Tv isn’t propping it up - multiple revenue streams are hence why is said media rights and sponserships

There are also many clubs out there that work sustainable

Some have debt to owners , some have debt to banks for stadium builds

football as a sport doesn’t just rely on the personal income of single owners

And the media deal for the Premier League I believe is around £10bn

If owners didn’t put in their own money then clubs would have to rely on the other avenues - many clubs can it

LIV has a single income - Saudi Royal money

there is no sponsers , no media rights - it’s relying on Saudis good will to keep the whole tour alive

The newest report is that LIV golf is in talks with the CW Network for television rights in the United States. They're basically a news channel but looking for a big-time sport to televise.

Should be a perfect fit for them. LIV will also need a product that will impress the viewing public.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The newest report is that LIV golf is in talks with the CW Network for television rights in the United States. They're basically a news channel but looking for a big-time sport to televise.

Should be a perfect fit for them. LIV will also need a product that will impress the viewing public.

CW Network is where all the US Teen programmes - Smallville etc and a load of reality Telly shows are broadcast in the US

It’s like E4

They certainly don’t broadcast much sports ?

 

[cleveland52]

CW Network is where all the US Teen programmes - Smallville etc and a load of reality Telly shows are broadcast in the US

It’s like E4

They certainly don’t broadcast much sports ?

You're correct! Sorta like golf on the USA network. I just read that today.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

The newest report is that LIV golf is in talks with the CW Network for television rights in the United States. They're basically a news channel but looking for a big-time sport to televise.

Should be a perfect fit for them. LIV will also need a product that will impress the viewing public.

I take it they couldn’t find one, so have gone for LiV? ?

 

[Swango1980]

Regarding sponsors, is it not a simple case that it is going to be extremely difficult for LIV to secure sponsors from the Western World?

From a golfing perspective, some people might think it is the best thing since sliced bread. No problem, whatever floats your boat. But, no one can deny that the presence of LIV has angered many of the top level in professional golf. Whether that be the biggest professional tour(s) in the world, and many of the biggest players. Including, arguably the biggest player of all time and the biggest player still playing. The arguments and counter arguments can go on for eternity, but it is a simple fact the arguments exist. And they are intense.

You then have the fact that it is being fully sponsored by Saudi Arabian money, and heavily linked to sports washing. Now, personally, I have no issues for people chasing money, even if it comes from the Middle East, as I don't automatically assume they now support human rights abuses. I also think more exposure of Saudi Arabian people (and especially children) to western culture will more than likely improve human rights issues in the Middle East over time, rather than the west orienteering towards their culture. I just think having people of different cultures mixing reduces ignorance and improves tolerance and acceptance over time. However, in the here and now, there is also no getting away from the fact that many see it as sports washing, it is despicable and anything associated with LIV morally reprehensible. That argument is made loud and clear, and the sort of thing the general media love to build up.

So, if you are in charge of a company, and want to throw away huge sums of money in sponsorship, you are obviously looking to build your brand and get tons back in the longer term. I see three big problems:

1. If you have an interest in golf, you probably already had an interest in it pre LIV anyway. Is investing in LIV a great idea, when the biggest brands / institutions in golf quite openly dislike / hate LIV? There are a large number of golf fans that either hate it, or at least have very little interest in it, so would a company risk sponsoring LIV and hoping LIV has more golf fans than other areas of professional golf that has fans?
2. With heavy links to sports washing and human rights abuses, does a company boss want to be linked with that. It doesn't even matter if you 100% have zero issues with the Saudi Arabian money and dismiss sports washing, it still doesn't stop others thinking this way and therefore thinking negatively about your brand simply by being associated with LIV
3. The prize money and contracts are huge. If LIV wants sponsors, presumably they will be looking for it to become sustainable over time? Therefore, a company boss might be nervous about how much money they'd need to give to LIV? Or, that LIV would need many many many sponsors to rake in the money required, thus diluting their exposure as an individual sponsor. Presumably, for LIV to be sustainable, they'd need a heck of a lot more sponsorship / bigger TV deals than the PGA Tour. If that was to happen, surely it would need be a much more attractive tour than the PGA Tour, that has had many many years to establish itself, and make tweaks to try and improve the commercial aspect of it.

 

[cleveland52]

Regarding sponsors, is it not a simple case that it is going to be extremely difficult for LIV to secure sponsors from the Western World?

From a golfing perspective, some people might think it is the best thing since sliced bread. No problem, whatever floats your boat. But, no one can deny that the presence of LIV has angered many of the top level in professional golf. Whether that be the biggest professional tour(s) in the world, and many of the biggest players. Including, arguably the biggest player of all time and the biggest player still playing. The arguments and counter arguments can go on for eternity, but it is a simple fact the arguments exist. And they are intense.

You then have the fact that it is being fully sponsored by Saudi Arabian money, and heavily linked to sports washing. Now, personally, I have no issues for people chasing money, even if it comes from the Middle East, as I don't automatically assume they now support human rights abuses. I also think more exposure of Saudi Arabian people (and especially children) to western culture will more than likely improve human rights issues in the Middle East over time, rather than the west orienteering towards their culture. I just think having people of different cultures mixing reduces ignorance and improves tolerance and acceptance over time. However, in the here and now, there is also no getting away from the fact that many see it as sports washing, it is despicable and anything associated with LIV morally reprehensible. That argument is made loud and clear, and the sort of thing the general media love to build up.

So, if you are in charge of a company, and want to throw away huge sums of money in sponsorship, you are obviously looking to build your brand and get tons back in the longer term. I see three big problems:

1. If you have an interest in golf, you probably already had an interest in it pre LIV anyway. Is investing in LIV a great idea, when the biggest brands / institutions in golf quite openly dislike / hate LIV? There are a large number of golf fans that either hate it, or at least have very little interest in it, so would a company risk sponsoring LIV and hoping LIV has more golf fans than other areas of professional golf that has fans?
2. With heavy links to sports washing and human rights abuses, does a company boss want to be linked with that. It doesn't even matter if you 100% have zero issues with the Saudi Arabian money and dismiss sports washing, it still doesn't stop others thinking this way and therefore thinking negatively about your brand simply by being associated with LIV
3. The prize money and contracts are huge. If LIV wants sponsors, presumably they will be looking for it to become sustainable over time? Therefore, a company boss might be nervous about how much money they'd need to give to LIV? Or, that LIV would need many many many sponsors to rake in the money required, thus diluting their exposure as an individual sponsor. Presumably, for LIV to be sustainable, they'd need a heck of a lot more sponsorship / bigger TV deals than the PGA Tour. If that was to happen, surely it would need be a much more attractive tour than the PGA Tour, that has had many many years to establish itself, and make tweaks to try and improve the commercial aspect of it.

You're forgetting that LIV has an ex-reality show host that's an advocate with a following that'll go off a cliff for him. That's enough to extend this abomination for quite some time and plenty of golf courses around the world to play on. I kid, but not by much.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Does Mito Perreira as a top 50 player strengthen the Liv Tour. - Yes

Is the PGAT concerned about losing Mito Perreira - No

 

[Mel Smooth]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613296570023149572

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613296580089778176

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613296590659416064

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613296600406974464

 

[Mel Smooth]

Think the full schedule is also due out tomorrow - that’s from the same account I’ve linked above.

 

[Beezerk]

Think you need some tips from our resident Twitter expert on how to post links ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Think you need some tips from our resident Twitter expert on how to post links ?

I know how to post em, badly. ;-)

 

[Deleted member 21445]

You know the emergence of Liv Golf has put the sport on the front pages as well as the back pages when pretty much the biggest podcast on the planet are talking about it.

The Netflix doc is going to be a must watch..