LIV Golf

[Ian_George]

Classic Foxholer ?

K?

 

[evemccc]

Decades of RC, WC, Solheim, CC, are exactly supporting my point, and why I mention them. The association, Europe, USA, GB, already existed, and so are contests of individuals representing those associations.
GB&I -> Europe morph also supports my point : 'Europe' well predates 1979. Hence why it works.
How long have the Crushems or Cleek Geeks been around ? And what is their shared identity and affinity ?

Yes Europe as a continent clearly predates 1979 ? But in the Ryder cup golfing context it was new, and an evolution of many decades of GB&I vs USA in the Ryder Cup…

The IPL in cricket and plenty of franchise cricket / rugby teams in the modern era in the UK and Australia have worked…it all has to start from somewhere ?‍

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes Europe as a continent clearly predates 1979 ? But in the Ryder cup golfing context it was new, and an evolution of many decades of GB&I vs USA in the Ryder Cup…

The IPL in cricket and plenty of franchise cricket / rugby teams in the modern era in the UK and Australia have worked…it all has to start from somewhere ?‍

Rugby and Cricket are team sports - you can’t use them as examples of why team
Golf would work

 

[Backsticks]

Yes Europe as a continent clearly predates 1979 ? But in the Ryder cup golfing context it was new, and an evolution of many decades of GB&I vs USA in the Ryder Cup…

The IPL in cricket and plenty of franchise cricket / rugby teams in the modern era in the UK and Australia have worked…it all has to start from somewhere ?‍

What singles sport has successfully created a team sport with support for, and contest between, the teams being a non trivial element ?

 

[evemccc]

Rugby and Cricket are team sports - you can’t use them as examples of why team
Golf would work

It is ‘part’ of the reason though - along with a cash-rich Saudi govt who is bankrolling it and with a history of largesse in funding sports / sports-washing, with half of the winners of the PGA’s PIP (ie most marketable) signed-up, and with a generally dismal week-to-week output from the PGA in terms of golf fan interest

Everything will be clear in 18 - 24 months from now. It could have significant sponsors with events in each team’s backyard (if teams were nation / continent based) ie. Australia, Spain, Asia etc and it could have a transfer window which could pique interest —- or it could die a death within two years

 

[Ian_George]

What singles sport has successfully created a team sport with support for, and contest between, the teams being a non trivial element ?

Tennis! Oh and (Ryder Cup) Golf!

 

[Backsticks]

Tennis! Oh and (Ryder Cup) Golf!

They didnt create the USA, GB&I, Europe, or nations. The point is that they existed. And that the teams representing them are an occasional contest representing a group to which the already belong.
My question was more rhetorical. No sport has done so, with artificial 'teams' with joke names.
IF the Saudis succeeded and had all the worlds top players, then team could succeed IF according to their country. If you dont have the clear best from each country though, it has no credibility. With made up nonsense teams, and without the players that can be credibly the best to represent that team, then the team element of LIV is truly a joke. That part is already dead. It just doesnt know it yet.

 

[garyinderry]

It is ‘part’ of the reason though - along with a cash-rich Saudi govt who is bankrolling it and with a history of largesse in funding sports / sports-washing, with half of the winners of the PGA’s PIP (ie most marketable) signed-up, and with a generally dismal week-to-week output from the PGA in terms of golf fan interest

Everything will be clear in 18 - 24 months from now. It could have significant sponsors with events in each team’s backyard (if teams were nation / continent based) ie. Australia, Spain, Asia etc and it could have a transfer window which could pique interest —- or it could die a death within two years

No ones watching as it is. If they ping about time zone to time zone it will alienate fans even more so.

 

[cleveland52]

The team element is doomed. Golf is a singles sport. Only sports where teams are integral to their very play thrive as team sports. The only way single sports break into the foreign realm of team contest is when there is already a natural team association, and an an equivalent one to play against : amateur golf clubs, counties, nations, and of course, the Ryder cup. Intrinsically team sports can support the assembly of disparate or not naturally associated players, as it is the sum of the parts that creates that an overall performance. That is not the case with golf. There is no true team play. Simply adding the score of individuals. It cannot succeed, and the drive on it is the strongest sign that the LIV direction doesnt know what it is doing.

I'm 99% with you.....Based on the fact that LIV golf has capture these many fanatics in just a few short months is remarkable to me. I don't think that it's doomed. There're enough fans on this site alone to keep it going....LOL! They'll keep interest high while in hiatus by their usual drip, drip rumors and housewives gossip and occasional poaching of good pgatour players but there's a reason the pgatour don't have many team events.... because no one watched them, and the ratings were terrible. There is a niche though, so let's see if those fans remain if they have to pay for the privilege.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Quote
"This exemption speaks to a bigger issue: Because of LIV, has the PGA Tour lost its moral compass? Rumors of under-the-table payments to top players have rumbled for months. Bubba Watson, who recently jumped to LIV, spoke out about unofficial appearance fees he received from Tour sponsors, and now comes the news of the Fitzpatrick exemption."

https://firepitcollective.com/matt-fitzpatricks-brother-fishy-q-school/

 

[cleveland52]

Quote
"This exemption speaks to a bigger issue: Because of LIV, has the PGA Tour lost its moral compass? Rumors of under-the-table payments to top players have rumbled for months. Bubba Watson, who recently jumped to LIV, spoke out about unofficial appearance fees he received from Tour sponsors, and now comes the news of the Fitzpatrick exemption."

https://firepitcollective.com/matt-fitzpatricks-brother-fishy-q-school/

So, Bubba Watson admitting that he took illegal money under the table and a Korn Ferry exemption that the pgatour may or may not have the right to give...... mean that they've lost their moral compass? OK......LOL!

 

[ExRabbit]

What I don't understand about this thread is that posters who think that LIV golf is not relevant, not worthy of watching, haven't watched it for more than a few minutes etc. etc. spend a good part of their spare time posting thousands of words telling everyone why LIV golf is so bad and not relevant.

Haters of LIV who post so often - please explain why you spend so much time bothering about it.

And I am just asking in terms of the golf element, not the political stuff.

 

[AussieKB]

What I don't understand about this thread is that posters who think that LIV golf is not relevant, not worthy of watching, haven't watched it for more than a few minutes etc. etc. spend a good part of their spare time posting thousands of words telling everyone why LIV golf is so bad and not relevant.

Haters of LIV who post so often - please explain why you spend so much time bothering about it.

And I am just asking in terms of the golf element, not the political stuff.

Be prepared for lot of BS.....

 

[Swango1980]

What I don't understand about this thread is that posters who think that LIV golf is not relevant, not worthy of watching, haven't watched it for more than a few minutes etc. etc. spend a good part of their spare time posting thousands of words telling everyone why LIV golf is so bad and not relevant.

Haters of LIV who post so often - please explain why you spend so much time bothering about it.

And I am just asking in terms of the golf element, not the political stuff.

Has this not already been answered? Because LIV golf has an impact on golf outside of LIV. Because it removes players, and some top players, from events and tours that most golf fans have enjoyed watching. Because it has an impact on the biggest golf events, like Majors, in terms of players that will appear in those (with it almost impossible to reasonably rank LIV players who play a completely different format, with no qualification criteria).

LIV has never appealed to me. However, if it wasn't for this thread, I'd honestly never talk about it, as no one I know in the real world has talked about it for months and months now. No one at my golf club talks about it, that I have heard, and I'm not on any other forums related to it.

However, the absolute garbage some LIV supporters spout on here does keep me coming back, I guess that is entertaining in a sadistic sense. It is probably the attitude of some LIV supporters in here that has driven me even further from LIV. As it seems to be the same attitude of LIV players and officials. That sense of entitlement stinks, and that is one of the big things I take away from LIV. You have these players who have made a big decision to join LIV, knowing there will be sacrifices in terms of golf, but at same time earning significantly more money. No issue with that, if that is what is important. But to then cry and demand that they want all other doors open to them is shameful, embarrassing and a kick in the teeth to their peers they left behind. The guys that get relatively much less, and who have to continue to play to a certain level to maintain their standing on their tour.

So, as a golf fan, I have strong feelings about LIV, but none of them are positive.

 

[Ian_George]

So, Bubba Watson admitting that he took illegal money under the table and a Korn Ferry exemption that the pgatour may or may not have the right to give...... mean that they've lost their moral compass? OK......LOL!

And that it was supposedly 'because of LIV'! Nothing to do with the threat of getting lawyers involved, or already rumoured 'workarounds' like those used in Tennis in their 'shamateurism' days (50+ years ago!)

 

[Ian_George]

Be prepared for lot of BS.....

Likely, pretty used to that!

 

[Mel Smooth]

Has this not already been answered? Because LIV golf has an impact on golf outside of LIV. Because it removes players, and some top players, from events and tours that most golf fans have enjoyed watching. Because it has an impact on the biggest golf events, like Majors, in terms of players that will appear in those (with it almost impossible to reasonably rank LIV players who play a completely different format, with no qualification criteria).

LIV has never appealed to me. However, if it wasn't for this thread, I'd honestly never talk about it, as no one I know in the real world has talked about it for months and months now. No one at my golf club talks about it, that I have heard, and I'm not on any other forums related to it.

However, the absolute garbage some LIV supporters spout on here does keep me coming back, I guess that is entertaining in a sadistic sense. It is probably the attitude of some LIV supporters in here that has driven me even further from LIV. As it seems to be the same attitude of LIV players and officials. That sense of entitlement stinks, and that is one of the big things I take away from LIV. You have these players who have made a big decision to join LIV, knowing there will be sacrifices in terms of golf, but at same time earning significantly more money. No issue with that, if that is what is important. But to then cry and demand that they want all other doors open to them is shameful, embarrassing and a kick in the teeth to their peers they left behind. The guys that get relatively much less, and who have to continue to play to a certain level to maintain their standing on their tour.

So, as a golf fan, I have strong feelings about LIV, but none of them are positive.

You're views epitomise the defendants of the PGA Tour. You're bitter because some players have left for something that they obviousy feel is better, you are annoyed that they might not play in some of the majors somewhere down the line, but you don't think they should because the golf they play can't be ranked (it can, and it is - just not by the OWGR)
Essentially, you want everything to stay as it was - Golf, Radio 2 style. Pipe and slippers, marvellous.

That's fine, but some people like something different in addition to what already exists - LIV delivers that in plenty of aspects. There's room for both, one doesn't have to destroy the other - so why all the resentment towards LIV, it's not going to do you any good, and it won't change what has already happened.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

You're views epitomise the defendants of the PGA Tour. You're bitter because some players have left for something that they obviousy feel is better, you are annoyed that they might not play in some of the majors somewhere down the line, but you don't think they should because the golf they play can't be ranked (it can, and it is - just not by the OWGR)
Essentially, you want everything to stay as it was - Golf, Radio 2 style. Pipe and slippers, marvellous.

That's fine, but some people like something different in addition to what already exists - LIV delivers that in plenty of aspects. There's room for both, one doesn't have to destroy the other - so why all the resentment towards LIV, it's not going to do you any good, and it won't change what has already happened.

Mel, the problem is not that another tour option exists, the problem is the way it has been done, with arrogance and an open cheque book and an assumption that the rest of the world will bend over backwards to accommodate them.

Also, it is totally financially dependent on Saudi cash, which is unsustainable in the long run, and very possibly viewers aren’t climbing aboard in droves as they don’t want to invest time in something that may not be around in a couple of years unless it can find a way to pay its way

 

[Mel Smooth]

Mel, the problem is not that another tour option exists, the problem is the way it has been done, with arrogance and an open cheque book and an assumption that the rest of the world will bend over backwards to accommodate them.

Also, it is totally financially dependent on Saudi cash, which is unsustainable in the long run, and very possibly viewers aren’t climbing aboard in droves as they don’t want to invest time in something that may not be around in a couple of years unless it can find a way to pay its way

Arrogance? Norman made it quite clear from day one he wanted to work withing the exisiting tours, the schedule backs that up.
I'm not going to try and debate that Norman is whiter than white, because he isn't, but the stand off from Monahan, and Pelley has been just as damaging to their own products than anything LIV have done.
Also, most of the vitriol has been fuelled by the media that existed to support those tours, did you read the Lynch article the other day. It was hateful, spiteful, bottom of the barrel journalism, even referencing LIV as a 'Cancer'

Disgusting - and worryingly, people lap it up.

 

[AussieKB]

Mel, the problem is not that another tour option exists, the problem is the way it has been done, with arrogance and an open cheque book and an assumption that the rest of the world will bend over backwards to accommodate them.

Also, it is totally financially dependent on Saudi cash, which is unsustainable in the long run, and very possibly viewers aren’t climbing aboard in droves as they don’t want to invest time in something that may not be around in a couple of years unless it can find a way to pay its way

Is this like the PGA taking all the Euro players for years ? but hey they did not go for the money ?
pot meet kettle.