LIV Golf

[evemccc]

Yes, people are really saying that. What holds people's interest is the sport, not the peripheral soap. LIV is soap alone, and that is the point - if true sport doesnt start soon, the soap alone isnt enough, even if we have bad guys, dodgy money, dark deeds, big talk personalities to boo or cheer, and the fabulously wealthy. The only interest so far has been in LIV the contender to the PGAT, not the golf played on LIV. And that is unsustainable. As mentioned, witness this thread - it is about the LIV v PGAT contest, not golf on LIV. The PGAT is where the golf still is. And even the leaks, rumours, and dramatic unveilings seems to have come to a halt. When announcing an unremarkable and unknown to the general world, course, as the location for one Saudi event constitutes news, then even the peripheral circus has become rather dull.

How do you account for this thread - and the topic of LIV on all social media / influencer channels (Rick Shiels etc) dwarfing discussion on here, and elsewhere on the internet, of ‘run-of-the-mill’ PGA Tour / DP World tour coverage?

Very few people actually care about pro golf outside of the majors

Irrespective of your or my view of LIV my view is that if you’re honest, you can’t account for the far greater interest / discussion of LIV and the soap-opera around transfers Vs coverage of run of the mill PGA Tour golf, because it has, objectively been far higher…hence my point ?

And incidentally, I do have a strong disagreement that media reporting of actual tactics and different styles of play is reported upon more than the soap-opera of the Premier League

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How do you account for this thread - and the topic of LIV on all social media / influencer channels (Rick Shiels etc) dwarfing discussion on here, and elsewhere on the internet, of ‘run-of-the-mill’ PGA Tour / DP World tour coverage?

Very few people actually care about pro golf outside of the majors

Irrespective of your or my view of LIV my view is that if you’re honest, you can’t account for the far greater interest / discussion of LIV and the soap-opera around transfers Vs coverage of run of the mill PGA Tour golf, because it has, objectively been far higher…hence my point ?

And I do have a strong disagreement that media reporting of actual tactics and different styles of play is reported upon more than the soap-opera of the Premier League

Highlighted the main statement ??

 

[evemccc]

Highlighted the main statement ??

Which is my main point in this whole thread!

Golf for me is for playing…cricket is for watching ??

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Which is my main point in this whole thread!

Golf for me is for playing…cricket is for watching ??

Yep

I’ll watch lots of sport , will play lots of golf but really only watch the majors and Ryder Cup

 

[Backsticks]

How do you account for this thread - and the topic of LIV on all social media / influencer channels (Rick Shiels etc) dwarfing discussion on here, and elsewhere on the internet, of ‘run-of-the-mill’ PGA Tour / DP World tour coverage?

I am misunderstanding this question, or repeating myself - but I account for the thread, and media interest, in that it is not the golf the LIV offers that is driving the interest, it is in the PGAT versus LIV contest, as a clash of two bodies for control of the very top of professional golf tournaments.

 

[evemccc]

I am misunderstanding this question, or repeating myself - but I account for the thread, and media interest, in that it is not the golf the LIV offers that is driving the interest, it is in the PGAT versus LIV contest, as a clash of two bodies for control of the very top of professional golf tournaments.

That’s a fine point of view that I don’t generally disagree with at all - but likewise it is not the PGA Tour weekly events that drive interest..(because I believe it is very low)

But it is the politics of PGAT vs LIV / gossip about players / soap-opera in how LIV evolves and who transfers over that drives interest….(like in football IMO) and that’s why IF the team element is worked out well - and evolves from what it is currently - it will prove to be a big driver of interest in LIV

 

[Ian_George]

That’s a fine point of view that I don’t generally disagree with at all - but likewise it is not the PGA Tour weekly events that drive interest..(because I believe it is very low)

But it is the politics of PGAT vs LIV / gossip about players / soap-opera in how LIV evolves and who transfers over that drives interest….(like in football IMO) and that’s why IF the team element is worked out well - and evolves from what it is currently - it will prove to be a big driver of interest in LIV

I can't see the team element actually being attractive to general viewers - particularly the way the points in rounds are allocated! If they can somehow convert their events from individual based to team based, then maybe, but that's a big 'maybe'!

 

[Backsticks]

The team element is doomed. Golf is a singles sport. Only sports where teams are integral to their very play thrive as team sports. The only way single sports break into the foreign realm of team contest is when there is already a natural team association, and an an equivalent one to play against : amateur golf clubs, counties, nations, and of course, the Ryder cup. Intrinsically team sports can support the assembly of disparate or not naturally associated players, as it is the sum of the parts that creates that an overall performance. That is not the case with golf. There is no true team play. Simply adding the score of individuals. It cannot succeed, and the drive on it is the strongest sign that the LIV direction doesnt know what it is doing.

 

[Swango1980]

I honestly can't see the team element working at all in golf. Yes, it works at the Ryder Cup, but only really because it is a unique event that happens only once every 2 years, and there is a huge element of continental / national pride.

The popular team sports are ones that absolutely require good team work to succeed. Quality individuals may stand out from the crowd, but still need their team mates to do well. And fans will ultimately support the teams, rather than individuals.

That just isn't golf. Stick 4 golfers in a team, what does it mean? Each individual golfer doesn't need their team mates to do well as an individual. They could still win the event, and have their 3 team mates finish 46-48. And, the individual event will always take centre stage, just like Formula 1. At no point will LIV stop having an individual player tournament, and make it 100% a team event.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I am misunderstanding this question, or repeating myself - but I account for the thread, and media interest, in that it is not the golf the LIV offers that is driving the interest, it is in the PGAT versus LIV contest, as a clash of two bodies for control of the very top of professional golf tournaments.

The same also applies to the PGA Tour though doesn't it? Does anybody care about the golf, not really - infact it's all been fairly mundane stuff since The Open when there was a real nail biting finish to the event as Rory struggled to bring it home, and Cam Smith took advantage.

There have been some enthralling battles on LIV, but I don't expect you to concede that - indeed, I very much doubt you watched them anyway.

 

[evemccc]

The team element is doomed. Golf is a singles sport. Only sports where teams are integral to their very play thrive as team sports. The only way single sports break into the foreign realm of team contest is when there is already a natural team association, and an an equivalent one to play against : amateur golf clubs, counties, nations, and of course, the Ryder cup. Intrinsically team sports can support the assembly of disparate or not naturally associated players, as it is the sum of the parts that creates that an overall performance. That is not the case with golf. There is no true team play. Simply adding the score of individuals. It cannot succeed, and is the drive on it is the strongest sign that the LIV direction doesnt know what it is doing.

Are you trying to convince yourself with this?

Pro cycling is inherently a team-sport…yet cycling is, as much as golf, an individual pursuit…

Decades of years of the Ryder Cup, the Walker Cup, Solheim and Curtis Cup beg to differ from your analysis…and centuries of Foursomes golf - which is at the heart of golf history -a team of two……so to claim that golf as a team sport is ‘foreign’ is patently absurd and more

As and for the Ryder Cup being a ‘natural’ association….How do you account for Gb&I morphing into Europe? Things evolve…

 

[Swango1980]

The same also applies to the PGA Tour though doesn't it? Does anybody care about the golf, not really - infact it's all been fairly mundane stuff since The Open when there was a real nail biting finish to the event as Rory struggled to bring it home, and Cam Smith took advantage.

There have been some enthralling battles on LIV, but I don't expect you to concede that - indeed, I very much doubt you watched them anyway.

Perhaps it has been mundane on PGA Tour, but that is probably why the winners don't get $4-5 million in prize money. I guess the prize money is within their means, it is sustainable.

Not the same for LIV. Golf fans get highly motivated for the 4 majors, Ryder Cup and maybe one or 2 other big events. I think it is very difficult for the majority of golf fans to get hyped up much more than that, unless you are an absolute golf nut. So, I doubt LIV will ever get passed the point of being mundane for most fans. Even if it had the best 48 golfers in the world, I suspect it would get boring seeing the same 48 golfers every LIV event. Different course, everything else the same. So, how is it ever going to generate enough money to give the players these huge payouts, so it is sustainable? What sponsors are going to throw money at a mundane tour, that haven't thrown money already at a tour that had Tiger Woods in his prime, and had all the best players in the world up until last year anyway?

 

[Swango1980]

Are you trying to convince yourself with this?

Pro cycling is inherently a team-sport…yet cycling is, as much as golf, an individual pursuit…

Decades of years of the Ryder Cup, the Walker Cup, Solheim and Curtis Cup beg to differ from your analysis…and centuries of Foursomes golf - which is at the heart of golf history -a team of two……so to claim that golf as a team sport is ‘foreign’ is patently absurd and more

As and for the Ryder Cup being a ‘natural’ association….How do you account for Gb&I morphing into Europe? Things evolve…

How exciting would the Ryder Cup be if it was made up of teams of players from random nations, and played 14-20 times per year?

 

[Backsticks]

Are you trying to convince yourself with this?

Pro cycling is inherently a team-sport…yet cycling is, as much as golf, an individual pursuit…

I am not. Cycling is a good example that supports my point. Ask anyone who won the Tour de France, Giro, Milano-SanRemo, etc, and you will always be given an individual. Never a team. Fans support riders, not teams. And furthermore, thats even with cycling yes indeed having a significant element of team cooperation being part of the success of the individual. In golf that is just not even the case.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I am not. Cycling is a good example that supports my point. Ask anyone who won the Tour de France, Giro, Milano-SanRemo, etc, and you will always be given an individual. Never a team. Fans support riders, not teams. And furthermore, thats even with cycling yes indeed having a significant element of team cooperation being part of the success of the individual. In golf that is just not even the case.

Team Sky had about 35 million in sponsorship revenue in 2017 didn't they? The team aspect is huge for the sport.

 

[Backsticks]

Decades of years of the Ryder Cup, the Walker Cup, Solheim and Curtis Cup beg to differ from your analysis…and centuries of Foursomes golf - which is at the heart of golf history -a team of two……so to claim that golf as a team sport is ‘foreign’ is patently absurd and more

As and for the Ryder Cup being a ‘natural’ association….How do you account for Gb&I morphing into Europe? Things evolve…

Decades of RC, WC, Solheim, CC, are exactly supporting my point, and why I mention them. The association, Europe, USA, GB, already existed, and so are contests of individuals representing those associations.
GB&I -> Europe morph also supports my point : 'Europe' well predates 1979. Hence why it works.
How long have the Crushems or Cleek Geeks been around ? And what is their shared identity and affinity ?

 

[Backsticks]

Team Sky had about 35 million in sponsorship revenue in 2017 didn't they? The team aspect is huge for the sport.

Your point being ?

 

[Ian_George]

The same also applies to the PGA Tour though doesn't it? Does anybody care about the golf, not really

Wrong! Tour Championship was enthralling!

There have been some enthralling battles on LIV, but I don't expect you to concede that - indeed, I very much doubt you watched them anyway.

Debateable! And the battles have actually often been on different holes, so rather difficult to follow! The advantage the PGAT (and every other format) has is that all groups finish on the 18th hole! LIV mitigates the 'problem' by having the leading players in the same group, but that doesn't allow for the 'great round' that becomes the target for the PGAT style last round! Basically, either can be 'more exciting' depending on 'luck'! Stenson v Johnson was the most interesting 'battle' for me, partly for the 'entertainment' value!

 

[Ian_George]

Yes!

FTFY!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Wrong! Tour Championship was enthralling!
Debateable! And the battles have actually often been on different holes, so rather difficult to follow! The advantage the PGAT (and every other format) has is that all groups finish on the 18th hole! LIV mitigates the 'problem' by having the leading players in the same group, but that doesn't allow for the 'great round' that becomes the target for the PGAT style last round! Basically, either can be 'more exciting' depending on 'luck'! Stenson v Johnson was the most interesting 'battle' for me, partly for the 'entertainment' value!

Classic Foxholer ?