LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

Being a successful businessman does not mean you can successfully build a new golf tour, they are not remotely the same thing

I know a guy who was an engineer, started selling greetings cards out of a van on a market, and eventually sold his company for a few hundred million pounds.

He also bought a football club and took it to the Premier League.

They are not remotely the same thing either, but both are beyond the capabilities of most people.

Greg Norman is a succesful golfer, and succesful businessman, of course he might fail in his position at LIV, but I'd say he's got a better understanding of the business than at least 99.99% of the people on the planet, but more importantly, like the guy I know, he will have the intuition to make the calls/ decisions that matter.

 

[r0wly86]

I know a guy who was an engineer, started selling greetings cards out of a van on a market, and eventually sold his company for a few hundred million pounds.

He also bought a football club and took it to the Premier League.

They are not remotely the same thing either, but both are beyond the capabilities of most people.

Greg Norman is a succesful golfer, and succesful businessman, of course he might fail in his position at LIV, but I'd say he's got a better understanding of the business than at least 99.99% of the people on the planet, but more importantly, like the guy I know, he will have the intuition to make the calls/ decisions that matter.

Ah I see so you have a piece of anecdotal evidence then that must apply to all people everywhere.

 

[Swango1980]

I know a guy who was an engineer, started selling greetings cards out of a van on a market, and eventually sold his company for a few hundred million pounds.

He also bought a football club and took it to the Premier League.

They are not remotely the same thing either, but both are beyond the capabilities of most people.

Greg Norman is a succesful golfer, and succesful businessman, of course he might fail in his position at LIV, but I'd say he's got a better understanding of the business than at least 99.99% of the people on the planet, but more importantly, like the guy I know, he will have the intuition to make the calls/ decisions that matter.

I've heard of business people that have made football clubs bust.

Are we at stalemate again?

 

[Bdill93]

I love this thread man, pure class

 

[BTatHome]

If you're referring to the Tour Championship which has , what, 30 players..it's an event that you have to qualify for.
You don't just get invited, you have to play in the playoffs and you need to play in multiple events to get into the playoffs
It's a million miles away from LIV's setup.

How about comparing it to the Tiger event, which has an invited field of 22 (?). Does that still get ranking points?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How about comparing it to the Tiger event, which has an invited field of 22 (?). Does that still get ranking points?

Yes - it also took 9 years to gain ranking points and once it made changes and players qualified via their rankings - as opposed to being a pure invite only.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Q.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578028567580901378

 

[Junior]

The worst thing LIV did was get Greg Norman to lead the thing.

If they had employed a business leader who was rational, smart, empathetic and charismatic then the other tours may have stopped and listened. As it is, they are meeting aggression with aggression and everyone is losing.

 

[Swango1980]

The worst thing LIV did was get Greg Norman to lead the thing.

If they had employed a business leader who was rational, smart, empathetic and charismatic then the other tours may have stopped and listened. As it is, they are meeting aggression with aggression and everyone is losing.

Not sure about that. I think the PGA would have fought against any rival tour that would have took top players away from their events.

And, by reading this thread, it appears LIV supporters worship the ground Greg Norman walks on. They probably have found it much easier to justify their love of him based on the fact he was an ex top golfer.

 

[Depreston]

How about comparing it to the Tiger event, which has an invited field of 22 (?). Does that still get ranking points?

Took about 8 years of asking OWGR to give them ranking points

 

[Slab]

Took about 8 years of asking OWGR to give them ranking points

I don’t know why it took 8 years but cant help thinking that once a precedent has been set surely it wouldn't (shouldn't) take anything that long for other 'small no cut field' tournaments that follow?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Q.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578028567580901378

Well if the content of the lawsuit against the PGA Tour is accurate, you can understand why. It would appear that the PGA have told everybody to stay on-side, or else.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Richard Bland leading after day 1. Course looks fantastic by the way, 7800 yards, rapid greens, loads of protection from bunkers and water.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I don’t know why it took 8 years but cant help thinking that once a precedent has been set surely it wouldn't (shouldn't) take anything that long for other 'small no cut field' tournaments that follow?

It took 8 years because the Hero didn’t want to change their entry process - it was invite only regardless of ranking points etc

Once they changed to allow entry by ranking points then it gained points

And other small no cut tournaments also have ranking points - providing they are either development tours or part of a main tour where the majority of their tournaments are 72 holes with a cut , full field and qualifying

 

[Slab]

It took 8 years because the Hero didn’t want to change their entry process - it was invite only regardless of ranking points etc

Once they changed to allow entry by ranking points then it gained points

And other small no cut tournaments also have ranking points - providing they are either development tours or part of a main tour where the majority of their tournaments are 72 holes with a cut , full field and qualifying

the bold Kinda sums up the LIV/MENA strategic alliance to a 't' really

No surprise owgr replied with "computer says no" but with WGCs, fedex, Hero events all getting points from the big boy tour plus the plethora (saw that word on another thread today) of other exceptions being made for 54 holes, no cuts etc etc it does seem like the goalposts are moving around (or rather the small print is being dredged up to exclude LIV players)
They'll (OWGR) have to tread carefully to remain credible

(p.s I don't give a rats bum if LIV players get ranking points or not)

 

[Mel Smooth]

This is the statement from MENA


We have had various communications with OWGR since submitting our 2022/23 schedule, MENA Tour handbook, exemption criteria and our field ahead of our opening event of our new season which tees off today. None of this communication pointed towards any technical reason for the LIV Golf Invitational Bangkok to be treated any differently to any MENA Tour event, every one of which has received OWGR since we were accepted into the OWGR framework in 2016.

We have followed the OWGR Guidelines for our 2022/23 Season. Recently, there has been much talk in the golf world about limited field tournaments and 54-hole tournaments. For absolute clarity, the OWGR itself defines a limited field tournament as a tournament which has less than 30 qualified players. Furthermore, the MENA Tour has always had the OWGR’s blessing to stage 54- hole tournaments.

The OWGR states: “The primary objective of the Ranking is to maintain, review, update, administer and promote the recognition of a system that fairly ranks the relative performance of golfers participating in the leading men’s professional tournaments throughout the world”. Clearly, the MENA Tour’s first event of the 2022/23 season, the LIV Golf Invitational Bangkok, is one of those tournaments and accordingly should be included in this week’s OWGR events. Not including our event in this week’s OWGR render the results and subsequent player movements inaccurate.

As per the OWGR Guidelines , we will be lodging our field for the LIV Golf Invitational Jeddah prior to the deadline of October 12th.

I also want to wish our 48 MENA Tour Members who are teeing off in Bangkok this morning all the very best for our first tournament of the 2022/23 season and assure all of our Members that we will continue to work tirelessly to resolve this situation with the OWGR.

The MENA Tour’s guiding principle of maximising playing opportunities and pathways for our Members and growing the great game of golf remains unchanged.

So, they're claiming they've played by the OWGR rules. If they have documented evidence - whcih they will, it will make for an intersting lawsuit.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

the bold Kinda sums up the LIV/MENA strategic alliance to a 't' really

No surprise owgr replied with "computer says no" but with WGCs, fedex, Hero events all getting points from the big boy tour plus the plethora (saw that word on another thread today) of other exceptions being made for 54 holes, no cuts etc etc it does seem like the goalposts are moving around (or rather the small print is being dredged up to exclude LIV players)
They'll (OWGR) have to tread carefully to remain credible

(p.s I don't give a rats bum if LIV players get ranking points or not)

The alliance I suspect needs to be looked into a bit more

All Mena events are 54 holes - that’s because they are a development tour , LIV events are 54 holes , so there are no events of 72 holes with cuts

If LIV is joining with Mena then it can’t be a development tour anymore - there is also a lot to be cleared up in regards what members can play in what event. Just look at their schedule- Events in the Middle East for £75k for 150 people, events in the US for £20mil for 48 people who are invited

And in regards the Fed Ex etc - it’s all following the rules , they are part of main tours that have over 75% events of 72 holes including cuts etc

No goal posts have moved or fine print , nothing has changed

LIV or indeed prob Norman thought they found a loophole without it seems understand the requirements

If Mena and LIV want to join forces and create a new tour then they need to follow the same requirements as all the other tours

 

[Bdill93]

I do think LIV's stumbling block seems to be the no cut and no qualifying aspects.

They could easily adjust things to suit - but I suppose it would go against what Norman has been selling for the last few months!

 

[Swango1980]

the bold Kinda sums up the LIV/MENA strategic alliance to a 't' really

No surprise owgr replied with "computer says no" but with WGCs, fedex, Hero events all getting points from the big boy tour plus the plethora (saw that word on another thread today) of other exceptions being made for 54 holes, no cuts etc etc it does seem like the goalposts are moving around (or rather the small print is being dredged up to exclude LIV players)
They'll (OWGR) have to tread carefully to remain credible

(p.s I don't give a rats bum if LIV players get ranking points or not)

LIV are the ones, quite clearly, trying to move the goal posts. It has been explained what has been required to get world ranking points for limited field, 54 hole events in the past.

This has nothing to do with going against LIV players. If the PGA Tour decided to run 54 hole events, invite only, then they wouldn't be given ranking points either.

 

[Slab]

The alliance I suspect needs to be looked into a bit more

All Mena events are 54 holes - that’s because they are a development tour , LIV events are 54 holes , so there are no events of 72 holes with cuts

If LIV is joining with Mena then it can’t be a development tour anymore - there is also a lot to be cleared up in regards what members can play in what event. Just look at their schedule- Events in the Middle East for £75k for 150 people, events in the US for £20mil for 48 people who are invited

And in regards the Fed Ex etc - it’s all following the rules , they are part of main tours that have over 75% events of 72 holes including cuts etc

No goal posts have moved or fine print , nothing has changed

LIV or indeed prob Norman thought they found a loophole without it seems understand the requirements

If Mena and LIV want to join forces and create a new tour then they need to follow the same requirements as all the other tours

View attachment 44696

Yes we've all seen that. And we've all seen precedents where exceptions to the primary criteria have already been permitted to have OWGR points in events & tours (its a slippery slope when it starts)

LIV (as we all know) are simply pushing for these exceptions to be made on multiple points of OWGR criteria (what's good for the goose etc) Its a tough ask especially given the 'opposition' is part of the OWGR set up but I don't think it can be dismissed quite so simply as listing the criteria