LIV Golf

[doublebogey7]

You mean the majors and a select few other events? In the main, the fields in the tour events are nothing to get excited about.

I'll wager that there are over 30 PGAT fields and around half that for the DPWT where the average OWGR for the top 48 players is higher than any LIV event.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

"2022 Professional golf thread" thread
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"LIV Golf" thread
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Which tour is generating the most interest?
(And quite a few of the posts in the "2022 Professional golf thread" will be about LIV)

I would expect that the biggest talking point in golf right now would be one of the threads with the highest activity

The arrival of LIV will continue to create a lot of discussion for a while yet

Wonder if these US businesses will get slammed for doing business ?

ttps://twitter.com/USChamber/status/1571486163835228162?t=QbNuOUuX7R0ge0iM22NQjA&s=19

It should be irrelevant- that’s politics and we all know that government do deals that many wouldn’t agree on - it should have no bearing on peoples thoughts in regards what sport do - sport should be held higher

I think you've just defeated your own argument.

Pressure is pressure - correct. Some handle it better than others. Some miss from 3 feet for victory - some handle it better. That's life.

Some people thrive in getting it over the line - others succumb.

Cam Smith = best player in the world.

Best player in the world is subjective

If going by rankings then he was 2 behind Scheffler

If going by comp wins this season then he is behind Scheffler

If going by ability then it’s personal opinion

 

[Mel Smooth]

Saw a headline of Koepka saying that on LIV that caddies were treated like human beings.

Made me smile, there was nothing stopping you Brooks from giving your caddy better pay and working conditions, you were their employer, I can only assume you didn't guarantee accommodation, travel, and food because you wanted to keep more of your money

And what’s been stopping the PGA and others doing the same, especially for those players not even making a penny, while Jay Monaghans wife was jollying round on the PGA jet at the players expense?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

And what’s been stopping the PGA and others doing the same, especially for those players not even making a penny, while Jay Monaghans wife was jollying round on the PGA jet at the players expense?

The caddies are employed by the players. They should be the ones looking after them.

 

[r0wly86]

And what’s been stopping the PGA and others doing the same, especially for those players not even making a penny, while Jay Monaghans wife was jollying round on the PGA jet at the players expense?

because caddies are employed by the players, the players pay them their salaries as a percentage of their winnings. Why would a tour get involved, it would be like the Premier League paying the back room staff of Manchester City, why would they do that?

It was more Brooks' comments, when he was in the PGAT he could have done what he liked to give his caddy a better deal, but never did

 

[BrianM]

Of course pressure isn't just pressure.

For instant having a 3 foot for eagle you will feel some pressure, having a 3 foot put to win a match you will feel more pressure, having a 3 footer to win the Open will be much much more pressure

The pressure is the same, it’s how you handle that pressure.
Some can handle it better than others.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And what’s been stopping the PGA and others doing the same, especially for those players not even making a penny, while Jay Monaghans wife was jollying round on the PGA jet at the players expense?

The caddies aren’t employed by the PGAT - they are employed by the player , it’s up to the player to look after his caddy not the tour

A lot of the talk in regards LiV was about the players being “independent contractors” yet now people want caddies etc to be paid employees?

So which is it ? Is everyone an independent contractors who get paid by their performance or are they paid employees ?

And what Monahan does is irrelevant- I’m guessing you don’t have an issue with GN getting £30mil a year

 

[Crow]

To all who replied to my post about interest in the tours, the point I was making (in too subtle a way it would appear) was that there has been a huge amount of verbiage posted about LIV, most of it from the same half dozen or so posters making the same arguments over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

And over and over and over

 

[Slab]

Of course the players can/should give their caddies a better financial deal but that in itself doesn’t address all the caddie issues or absolve the Tour from doing their part

We’ve all read stories about caddies not permitted access xyz clubhouse or cant eat in same place as players, cant get a lift to the course etc. Things all totally withing the remit of the Tour to correct.
Also Tour/s insist that caddies wear advertising at each event without any payment by disguising it as a 'condition of the Players entry' to the tournament that their caddy wears the supplied ‘uniform’

Yes Players can/should do more but make no mistake the Tour can/should do more too

 

[r0wly86]

The pressure is the same, it’s how you handle that pressure.
Some can handle it better than others.

but is obviously not the same, are you saying that a putt to win the monthly medal has the same amount of pressure on it than to win the Open. You are saying someone standing on your foot in trainers and someone standing on your foot in stilettos is the same because they both exert pressure, whereas we know in simple physics that the stiletto will exert a lot more pressure than the trainer.

If you have placed more personal interest in winning an event, for instance a major or even ryder cup then the pressure to win will be higher than a simple tour event

 

[Mel Smooth]

The caddies are employed by the players. They should be the ones looking after them.

Hopefully the other 2 people who have made exactly the same point as you read my response.

What about the players not making the cut, how do they pay their caddies? These players have been essential to the concept of the traditional tour weekend - effectively many leave the event having made a financial loss. Why couldn’t the tours have a financial protection plan in place for these guys so they can make sure their caddies get paid, something LIV ensure for those players at the bottom of the prize payout.

And all the while, the PGA Tour have been making huge tax free ‘profit’ - which they’ve then spent some of - presumably to help keep the tax man away from their door, on jet fuel and airport landing fees for the commissioners wife.

Just because the players employ the caddies, it doesn’t mean the tours couldn’t have ensured those caddies were properly financially remunerated for their work.

 

[r0wly86]

Of course the players can/should give their caddies a better financial deal but that in itself doesn’t address all the caddie issues or absolve the Tour from doing their part

We’ve all read stories about caddies not permitted access xyz clubhouse or cant eat in same place as players, cant get a lift to the course etc. Things all totally withing the remit of the Tour to correct.
Also Tour/s insist that caddies wear advertising at each event without any payment by disguising it as a 'condition of the Players entry' to the tournament that their caddy wears the supplied ‘uniform’

Yes Players can/should do more but make no mistake the Tour can/should do more too

The players could have also solve this, if they just stood up and said the caddies will eat with us, get entry to the clubhouse etc it would have happen. The course want to host the events and so the players have an enormous say, if things were like this and didn't change for years we can presume that the players didn't care enough to force a change

 

[Swango1980]

The pressure is the same, it’s how you handle that pressure.
Some can handle it better than others.

It takes some doing, but I think this is a contender for the stupidest comment ever made on this thread. Or, if I put it more politely, most naïve

 

[r0wly86]

Hopefully the other 2 people who have made exactly the same point as you read my response.

What about the players not making the cut, how do they pay their caddies? These players have been essential to the concept of the traditional tour weekend - effectively many leave the event having made a financial loss. Why couldn’t the tours have a financial protection plan in place for these guys so they can make sure their caddies get paid, something LIV ensure for those players at the bottom of the prize payout.

And all the while, the PGA Tour have been making huge tax free ‘profit’ - which they’ve then spent some of - presumably to help keep the tax man away from their door, on jet fuel and airport landing fees for the commissioners wife.

Just because the players employ the caddies, it doesn’t mean the tours couldn’t have ensured those caddies were properly financially remunerated for their work.

Your reply is still nonsense, the players who employed the caddies could have at any point given the caddies a guaranteed salary, perks, etc regardless of whether they made the cut, this was always within their gift.

"Just because the players employ the caddies, it doesn’t mean the tours couldn’t have ensured those caddies were properly financially remunerated for their work."

well is kind of does, do you expect someone who is not your employer to compensate you for work you do for your employer? A caddy is an employee of the player, when they start work they can negotiate there work terms, if the players wanted to they could make them comfortable. Why should the tour pay the caddies, do you think the Premier league should pay the kit men of the premier league teams, or the WBO pay for the boxers seconds?

 

[Pin-seeker]

To all who replied to my post about interest in the tours, the point I was making (in too subtle a way it would appear) was that there has been a huge amount of verbiage posted about LIV, most of it from the same half dozen or so posters making the same arguments over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

And over and over and over

Imagine how many posts they’ve made & how much time they spend obsessing over LIV ?
You can bet their FB & Twitter is full of it aswell.

 

[Swango1980]

Hopefully the other 2 people who have made exactly the same point as you read my response.

What about the players not making the cut, how do they pay their caddies? These players have been essential to the concept of the traditional tour weekend - effectively many leave the event having made a financial loss. Why couldn’t the tours have a financial protection plan in place for these guys so they can make sure their caddies get paid, something LIV ensure for those players at the bottom of the prize payout.

And all the while, the PGA Tour have been making huge tax free ‘profit’ - which they’ve then spent some of - presumably to help keep the tax man away from their door, on jet fuel and airport landing fees for the commissioners wife.

Just because the players employ the caddies, it doesn’t mean the tours couldn’t have ensured those caddies were properly financially remunerated for their work.

Should the PGA Tour also pay the players coaching staff, dieticians, physios, gardeners, etc?

Maybe the caddies would prefer it if they were simply guaranteed a fee of say, $5,000 per tournament. They are guaranteed that money if the player misses the cut. However, they still only get that money if the player wins.

Would you support that? Would the tour then be treating caddies like humans? Or, is this another LIV type argument where you want not just the golfers to have their cake and eat it, you want the same for caddies now as well? And, while you want players and caddies to be richly rewarded, you still have not bothered to put your hand in your pocket to pay for a Sky subscription to watch the PGA Tour events. Perhaps if you and others paid for a subscription, the PGA could have paid out lots of money to caddies at every event. If that is what you want as a fan.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

To all who replied to my post about interest in the tours, the point I was making (in too subtle a way it would appear) was that there has been a huge amount of verbiage posted about LIV, most of it from the same half dozen or so posters making the same arguments over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

And over and over and over

And this adds to the conversation how?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Imagine how many posts they’ve made & how much time they spend obsessing over LIV ?
You can bet their FB & Twitter is full of it aswell.

And another one who doesn’t seem to be interested in the subject but feels the need to pop in and make sarcastic remarks.

 

[Slab]

The players could have also solve this, if they just stood up and said the caddies will eat with us, get entry to the clubhouse etc it would have happen. The course want to host the events and so the players have an enormous say, if things were like this and didn't change for years we can presume that the players didn't care enough to force a change

vive la revolution?

You have to wonder then if it was that easy why the current/past greats of the game never did it.
I suspect its only easy on paper and the reality is that 'player power' wouldn't get their employees a reimbursement for the unpaid advertising; maybe it was the Tour itself that barred the caddies from certain places rather than the course

Regardless, the Tour is the Payers and the players are the Tour but its still a problem for caddies

 

[Jacko_G]

Of course pressure isn't just pressure.

For instant having a 3 foot for eagle you will feel some pressure, having a 3 foot put to win a match you will feel more pressure, having a 3 footer to win the Open will be much much more pressure

So pressure is pressure regardless of the situation - some handle it and control it better.

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