LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

Of course there is...but when you already have more than you could possibly spend in a lifetime it doesn't mean as much....
$4m for 1st...let's say 1.5m for 2nd ( I don't know the numbers and im realnot that interested)..
Tringale is leading by 2 with 3 to play ROFLMAO...is there really a motivation for DJ or Bryson or Smith to push for the birdies?
Or sit back and collect the 2nd place cheque..? Thats a mighty big kitchen.....
You'll never see it from any side other than your own, and I probably won't see it from any side but mine either...but LIV is exhibition golf
Pure and simple..and I hope it dies on it's arse.

Can you explain why it's exhibtion golf, and then explain why for example, the Tour Championship isn't?

 

[Imurg]

Can you explain why it's exhibtion golf, and then explain why for example, the Tour Championship isn't?

If you need me to explain it then I'm wasting my time...
If you need me I'll be in any thread other than this one

 

[C7usk]

Im not sure what the main motivation for a pro is.... But I am but a mere' hacker and don't play my mates for cash... But you can be damn sure I'm motivated to want to beat them, as they are me, every time we play.. Its that inbuilt thing I am sure a lot of us have.? ?

 

[Swango1980]

Can I ask you this. Why was Cam Smith trying so hard to win The Open - even though he had already made a decision on LIV - indeed, why were there so many LIV players in the top 15 or so?

You obviously didn't read my post properly. As I said, I still want to go out and win my monthly medal, despite there not being any financial reward. I also do not expect LIV players to drop off a cliff immediately when they decide to sign that contract. Up until recently, they have been working hard to become the players they have become. They have trained hard, and I fully expect them to still benefit from that. They still have the game.

The real acid test will be when we fast forward a year or 2. The we will see just how competitive they are, if they are up against guys who are fighting hard to keep their careers going, whilst they are already made men. Pro golfers generally practice extensively. LIV golfers may feel there is less need to do that, and so many will probably ease of on the training to some extent. If they are still able to compete at the same level they have up to now, that would suggest there is no point in spending extra hours on the driving range / practice course that got them to where they are now. That would be very surprising, and not an hypothesis most would make.

 

[Mel Smooth]

You obviously didn't read my post properly. As I said, I still want to go out and win my monthly medal, despite there not being any financial reward. I also do not expect LIV players to drop off a cliff immediately when they decide to sign that contract. Up until recently, they have been working hard to become the players they have become. They have trained hard, and I fully expect them to still benefit from that. They still have the game.

The real acid test will be when we fast forward a year or 2. The we will see just how competitive they are, if they are up against guys who are fighting hard to keep their careers going, whilst they are already made men. Pro golfers generally practice extensively. LIV golfers may feel there is less need to do that, and so many will probably ease of on the training to some extent. If they are still able to compete at the same level they have up to now, that would suggest there is no point in spending extra hours on the driving range / practice course that got them to where they are now. That would be very surprising, and not an hypothesis most would make.

Phil Mickelson won a major at nigh on 51 years old, whilst being absolutely minted - what was his motivation?

 

[Swango1980]

1) Most would accept that the most popular players can and do earn more through various sponsorship and leveraging their popularity in endorsements, than on the course — this is nothing new

2) The PGA Tour decided to aid and abet the vast sums that players are earning off the course by awarding many millions through the PIP, that had zero relation to their on course performance — and then, under pressure from LIV, they decided to increase those sums exponentially


If you want to argue about incentives and motivation, fine - I don’t doubt your points….but they cannot reasonably be used to justify the PGA Tour and against the LIV model when you take the above two facts into account

The argument is not pure black and white, in saying that players on PGA Tour have never lost motivation due to money in their account, while all LIV players will always lose motivation due to the money in their account. There may be many professional golfers over the years who, after a promising start, fell off a cliff. There may be many reasons for that. However, maybe some of them made large amounts of money, felt it was enough that they'd always be comfortable, enjoyed it and lost focus on golf.

But, the LIV Tour is on an entirely different scale. The money they are being given up front is ridiculously more than they'd ever dream off on the PGA Tour. They are (the current top players on LIV at least) guaranteed a place in a small field for some time to come, and so are likely to continue earning high amounts of money, even when not playing that well (assuming LIV are telling the truth about winnings and contracted money being separate). Not sure how PIP works to be fair, but presumably players will earn best through that by having a stellar PGA Tour career? So, it is still based on overall performance. I mean, I am sure there are some golfers with immense personalities, but presumably if they are missing cuts every week and losing their PGA Tour Card, they are less likely to do well out of PIP?

 

[Swango1980]

Phil Mickelson won a major at nigh on 51 years old, whilst being absolutely minted - what was his motivation?

To prolong his career on the PGA Tour for as long as possible. Before his win, he will have still practiced hard to try and stay at that high level on the PGA Tour. He probably didn't expect a major win, but his practice paid off when he was able to put a great week together.

I'm not sure Phil Mickleson is a great example for you to use in this argument. How well has he done on the LIV Tour up to now?

 

[Mel Smooth]

To prolong his career on the PGA Tour for as long as possible. Before his win, he will have still practiced hard to try and stay at that high level on the PGA Tour. He probably didn't expect a major win, but his practice paid off when he was able to put a great week together.

I'm not sure Phil Mickleson is a great example for you to use in this argument. How well has he done on the LIV Tour up to now?

He hasn't done well at all, but then, he's obviously had some time away from golf with some personal issues.

So, lots of players in LIV who have major exemptions. Why will they give up trying to be the best they can be, if anything, I'd expect a good percentage of them will be actually more motivated - and they now have more time and more money to invest in themselves.

 

[Swango1980]

He hasn't done well at all, but then, he's obviously had some time away from golf with some personal issues.

So, lots of players in LIV who have major exemptions. Why will they give up trying to be the best they can be, if anything, I'd expect a good percentage of them will be actually more motivated - and they now have more time and more money to invest in themselves.

I don't expect them to not try and give it their all in the actual tournament itself, and if they are in contention, continue to do so (again, just like me when I play well in a medal). But, I reckon some of them to relax a little bit when it comes to training. As a result, I reckon they best will not be as good as their best pre LIV, in general. I'd also say there is more of a chance they'd fade away in a tournament if they perceive they are losing ground, just because they simply do not have one of the major motivating factors that other players will have.

Again, these are all general comments. I'm not saying that 100% of LIV golfers will just give up 100% of the time. I just think their levels will naturally drop over time. Unless LIV introduce a way that qualification is necessary to continue on the tour, and no one has a guarantee to be on it for a long period of time if they play rubbish.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I don't expect them to not try and give it their all in the actual tournament itself, and if they are in contention, continue to do so (again, just like me when I play well in a medal). But, I reckon some of them to relax a little bit when it comes to training. As a result, I reckon they best will not be as good as their best pre LIV, in general. I'd also say there is more of a chance they'd fade away in a tournament if they perceive they are losing ground, just because they simply do not have one of the major motivating factors that other players will have.

Again, these are all general comments. I'm not saying that 100% of LIV golfers will just give up 100% of the time. I just think their levels will naturally drop over time. Unless LIV introduce a way that qualification is necessary to continue on the tour, and no one has a guarantee to be on it for a long period of time if they play rubbish.

Well the bottom 4 at the end of 2023 will be relegated from the series, with qualification to the series also available. In that respect, they should be motivated if they want to remain in the series.

 

[Swango1980]

Well the bottom 4 at the end of 2023 will be relegated from the series, with qualification to the series also available. In that respect, they should be motivated if they want to remain in the series.

Well, maybe that will provide more motivation to the golfers in the field who are currently ranked outside the top 1000. But, with such a gulf in natural ability, I'm sure the biggest golfers in the field could stop training altogether, and still feel fairly confident they'd finish in the top 44. These are also the players who have been given tens of millions up front anyway (and several of those on their last legs), so they may well have accepted they will just cash in on the last big pay day, and then what will be, will be.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Once Tiger took the Nike money and had secured his family’s future he was unmotivated to win…

Oh wait…

Oh yeah... Tell me, what tour was it Tiger moved to when he took the Nike money; or did he stay on the PGA Tour, continuing to test himself against the best?

Taking money from a sponsor whilst staying on the same open tour and taking money from a new employer to move to an invitational tour aren't even in the same book, never mind the same page.

 

[evemccc]

Oh yeah... Tell me, what tour was it Tiger moved to when he took the Nike money; or did he stay on the PGA Tour, continuing to test himself against the best?

Taking money from a sponsor whilst staying on the same open tour and taking money from a new employer to move to an invitational tour aren't even in the same book, never mind the same page.

Read the whole thread and whole bit about motivation…

Btw - It’s got nothing to do with ‘testing yourself against the best’ — that happens in the majors and Ryder Cup…

 

[evemccc]

If PGA Tour really was about that, the whole narrative of ‘testing yourself against the best’, then the changes highlighted last week wouldn’t have needed to happen!

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Majors...

Are all about the best playing against the best...
They want the best field in golf in their events, The R&A proudly says its the biggest most worldwide field in golf.

With Liv now having over a quarter of the top 100 ranked Players and some well known names outside of that they have moved the needle enough to prove a real headache for the Majors governing bodies.

Still not heard anything from the R&A, USGA, Masters or PGA of America.

Wonder when they will put their cards on the table.??

I would be very surprised if the Masters deny Liv past champions the chance to play in April 2023

 

[doublebogey7]

What's the basis to win when Liverpool plays Bournemouth and they're 6-0 up - what's the motivation to score another three goals??
These are sports people, they are where they are because winning is in their DNA. So what if it's an LIV event rather than a PGA event? - there's absolutely no difference - unless of course, you've taken in all the spiel that LIV is an exhibition event.

On most occasions when a team goes three up in double quick time as Liverpool did, the teams do not go on to score another six. Now there are many factors involved here, but one of them will be diminished motivation as the game is already won. There are always exceptions that prove a rule. I have no doubt that for some who took the LIV money there will be those that are just as motivated as they were before, but for most, I don't see them being as motivated to win a WGC event for instance as they will be a brand new LIV event with zero history and where not all the best players in the world are competing.

 

[hovis]

Phil Mickelson won a major at nigh on 51 years old, whilst being absolutely minted - what was his motivation?

Pay off his gambling debts

 

[Swango1980]

Majors...

Are all about the best playing against the best...
They want the best field in golf in their events, The R&A proudly says its the biggest most worldwide field in golf.

With Liv now having over a quarter of the top 100 ranked Players and some well known names outside of that they have moved the needle enough to prove a real headache for the Majors governing bodies.

Still not heard anything from the R&A, USGA, Masters or PGA of America.

Wonder when they will put their cards on the table.??

I would be very surprised if the Masters deny Liv past champions the chance to play in April 2023

To be fair, by the time the Majors come along again, many of these players may well have dropped outside the top 100 ranked players. So, perhaps the Majors will not have that big a headache. Players like Wolff, Watson, Matt Jones, Bland, Garcia, etc will probably be outside the Top 100 and I doubt the Majors will lose too much sleep over that.

Brooks, DeChambeau, Smith and DJ may be the biggest 4 players that will be missed. However, I still doubt they'd lose sleep over missing just these 4 players. As it stands, I think 19 of the top 20 are not on LIV. So, I think when you have the likes of Scheffler, McIlroy, Cantlay, Scauffle, Rahm, Thomas, Spieth, Morikawa, Zalatoris, etc in the Majors, there is are no real concerns.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Pay off his gambling debts

Maybe everybody should take up losing ten percent of their perosnal wealth to the bookies in order to win majors ;-)

 

[BubbaP]

My oh my, sport and opinions ?

At least Greg C can keep his humour ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564654883508215809