LIV Golf

[woofers]

I think we are all agreed that, no matter what they say, how they dress it up, it is all about the money. End of. And for virtually everybody, if it was just about the money, that would be the case no matter what profession. But for some of us, it matters where the money is coming from and in what guise it is being delivered. Others don’t care, fair enough.
Next, having been a member of a tour, an organisation, however imperfect, that has provided you with your current wealth, be it winnings, or appearance money, it is surely crass for you to expect that organisation to accept you when you have blatantly disregarded its conditions and rules. The choice is a simple one. Take the big money from the new guys, for just showing up, or stay with the established organisation for less money and potentially more prestige, but you can’t have both. Make your choice, shut up and get on with it (Poulter, Mickleson, etc).

 

[Depreston]

the numbers are mind boggling if you had a 20 year career and the Liv tournament was still around as structured today ... Take Rory as an example he's not far off 300 starts which would be 20 years of 15 LIV events (thats the rumour of how many they'll have next year and going forward)

he's played 274 events with 21 wins and a further 80 top 10s

21 x 4mil = 84 million

say an average of 500k for a top 10 = 40 mil

then even say he finishes dead last in the other 174 events at 125k = 21.75 mil

plus surely these one off payments will be expected every 4 year deal? how much would that cost?

not even taking into account the team element either

crazy like

 

[Deleted member 29109]

the numbers are mind boggling if you had a 20 year career and the Liv tournament was still around as structured today ... Take Rory as an example he's not far off 300 starts which would be 20 years of 15 LIV events (thats the rumour of how many they'll have next year and going forward)

he's played 274 events with 21 wins and a further 80 top 10s

21 x 4mil = 84 million

say an average of 500k for a top 10 = 40 mil

then even say he finishes dead last in the other 174 events at 125k = 21.75 mil

plus surely these one off payments will be expected every 4 year deal? how much would that cost?

not even taking into account the team element either

crazy like

The money won’t be like this forever though. They are having to pay large sums just to get people to turn up to play in what are essentially exhibitions.

They have had to rope in a load of unknowns that can’t even qualify for the KF and play a shotgun start just to make up a field. Then they dress it up as an exciting change of format, and call it a success.

At some point I presume it will have to work commercially.

 

[Bdill93]

Not sure that’s the case in regards the Canadian Open

A good number of golfers looks to play the week before the major - some give it a mess , it also has the ranking points which opens up further doors - majors. Wgc and of course Ryder Cup points

All the tour events come with more than just money

I did mention fed ex but yes sure world ranking points and various other points too.

And fine, maybe not the Canadian Open but the point still has value (clearly the Canadian is the Scottish open equivilant).

I disagree with your point about all tour events though. The Rocket Mortgage classic has no more to offer than an event on the DP World tour like the Irish open.... except 1.5 million more for the players kitty and that is why top players will choose to play stateside almost entirely.

Again you can always find an exception - The AP Invitational pulls at the heartstrings paying homage to one of the greats and I do love the red cardigan tradition.

But The PGA tour has had no serious competition for so long that everyones just accepted it as the top tour. Theres no wonder the top players play there, there hasnt been anywhere else to play - until now!


I will state I really am not a PGA tour hater, I love watching all forms of pro golf - even the ladies tours if theyre on!

I just agree that there actually is a market for a shorter format of 4 day stroke play golf and some very rich people are trying to make it happen.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Interesting take from Gary Martin here, James Robinson has also done a review and they both seemed to have enjoyed it

Interesting point from Sam Sharman who's in the vid, the caddies were handed a cheque to 10% of their players winnings direct from Liv, so the players don't rve have to deal with paying them.
Certainly taking care of the finer details.

 

[Depreston]

The money won’t be like this forever though. They are having to pay large sums just to get people to turn up to play in what are essentially exhibitions.

They have had to rope in a load of unknowns that can’t even qualify for the KF and play a shotgun start just to make up a field. Then they dress it up as an exciting change of format, and call it a success.

At some point I presume it will have to work commercially.

Yeah same but not often in sports do prize funds decrease

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Interesting take from Gary Martin here, James Robinson has also done a review and they both seemed to have enjoyed it

Interesting point from Sam Sharman who's in the vid, the caddies were handed a cheque to 10% of their players winnings direct from Liv, so the players don't rve have to deal with paying them.
Certainly taking care of the finer details.

Probably a caveat from Mickleson's caddy

 

[PJ87]

I've decided to start posting on this thread now the event is done. I've followed it but not read every post in full (@swango - you make good points but try and be a bit more concise ).

Some observations:
- Mel Smooth started off with a contrary point of view which really added balance and was very welcome. I liked his original contributions but his posts have descended into a bizarre and shameless mouthpiece for LIV and Saudi, a mix of propoganda and fake news.
- Is PaulJames really G1z1? Although one purports to be Scottish and one English, there are remarkable similarities in grammar and posting style. Can the mods check IP addresses?
- Why do some posters love laying in to LiverpoolPhil? I understand that some disagree with him, but as an example he stated he had turned down work in Saudi and I don't get it why some people questioned it and even denied it?
- Can we all just agree that this was an exhibition event to promote Saudi Arabia. The whole thing has been crass in the extreme and the narrative of growing the game is pure nonsense. Let's just be candid and then we can move on to discussing the actual golf.
- Not much chat about the actual golf, but this event has got golf on the front pages for a change so would be good to see the golfing authorities / industry (both old and new) taking advantage of it.

Feel free to check them .. if your happy to call me out for zero reason then I'm happy to back up that I'm from Havering .. infact send me a cheque for £1000 to my home address I'll take a pic when it arrives

 

[Swango1980]

Do you not understand the purpose of LIV? It is not a standalone profit making venture, it will make a massive loss intentionally. It is a long term PR exercise to soften the perception of Saudi Arabia in the western world (I don't believe the goal is to enforce Sharia law in the UK). This is known as sportswashing.

I understand the concept, but they are not promoting the oppression of woman for us to follow along. They are promoting the nation so that they can diversify their economy in the long term. To do so, they will realise they will have many challenges along the way, including the west criticising their human rights. They can't afford to throw extortionate sums of money at things forever, at some point they'll want value for money. They'll find that will become easier if they do something about their poor global reputation on human rights. Whether they so, I don't know.

 

[Springveldt]

Interesting take from Gary Martin here, James Robinson has also done a review and they both seemed to have enjoyed it

Interesting point from Sam Sharman who's in the vid, the caddies were handed a cheque to 10% of their players winnings direct from Liv, so the players don't rve have to deal with paying them.
Certainly taking care of the finer details.

So, did LIV pay an extra 10% on top for the caddies, or did they just pay the player 90%? Did it include the team money bonus as well? If so, Schwartzel's caddy just walked away with $475K this week, only the top 3 in the RBC Canadian Open made more money that him.

The money won’t be like this forever though. They are having to pay large sums just to get people to turn up to play in what are essentially exhibitions.

They have had to rope in a load of unknowns that can’t even qualify for the KF and play a shotgun start just to make up a field. Then they dress it up as an exciting change of format, and call it a success.

At some point I presume it will have to work commercially.

I'm not sure it does though. The NLU guys were saying that it's rumoured that the budget is 5 or 6 billion for this. That is going to last quite a while and they could probably throw more at it if they wanted.

 

[Mel Smooth]

So, did LIV pay an extra 10% on top for the caddies, or did they just pay the player 90%? Did it include the team money bonus as well? If so, Schwartzel's caddy just walked away with $475K this week, only the top 3 in the RBC Canadian Open made more money that him.

I'm not sure it does though. The NLU guys were saying that it's rumoured that the budget is 5 or 6 billion for this. That is going to last quite a while and they could probably throw more at it if they wanted.

I'm not sure, but I'd guess the players got paid the prize money and the caddies payment was additional.

The caddies are getting well rewarded for sure, there's a few that have commented how good the service was for them at that first event.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1536752516175650816

Perfectly put ??

 

[PJ87]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1536752516175650816

Perfectly put ??

Because it suits your opinion? In that case yes it is perfectly put

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because it suits your opinion? In that case yes it is perfectly put

Do you even bother to just take a step back and listen to what he is saying - or is it just a case of barrelling in once again without even bothering to understand what he is saying

 

[PJ87]

Do you even bother to just take a step back and listen to what he is saying - or is it just a case of barrelling in once again without even bothering to understand what he is saying

Same question to you with any of those interviews by say Bryson or kaymer or again doesn't that suit your narrative

 

[woofers]

Because it suits your opinion? In that case yes it is perfectly put

Well yes, we agree with what he’s (JR) saying, that’s why I’ve ‘liked it’. I guess it doesn’t suit your opinion, can you understand and leave it at that.
I don’t feel the need to ‘diss’ the others just because I don’t agree with them.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Same question to you with any of those interviews by say Bryson or kaymer or again doesn't that suit your narrative

Yes I understand exactly what BDC and Kaymer were saying - they were both clear as day in regards their motives for going to LIV

Maybe just take a step back for once

 

[PJ87]

Yes I understand exactly what BDC and Kaymer were saying - they were both clear as day in regards their motives for going to LIV

Maybe just take a step back for once

Jesus pot kettle black in almost every thread you post in

Those in glass houses Phil should stop smashing the windows ....

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well yes, we agree with what he’s (JR) saying, that’s why I’ve ‘liked it’. I guess it doesn’t suit your opinion, can you understand and leave it at that.
I don’t feel the need to ‘diss’ the others just because I don’t agree with them.

When listening to JR you can prob just imagine it would be Seve saying the same sort of things

 

[fundy]

Jesus pot kettle black in almost every thread you post in

Those in glass houses Phil should stop smashing the windows ....

and again, oh the irony