LIV Golf

[garyinderry]

Enjoying the Canadian Open thus far. Some quality golf.

Watching this makes me realise that I'm not personally a fan of shotgun starts. I don't really buy the "we get to watch more golf with shotgun starts". In yesterday's final round, the footage generally focuses on the leading players. No one really cares about the players that are miles off, so we only need to see them if they do something genuinely spectacular. With a normal draw, same thing. It generally focuses on the last 2 or 3 groups. So, we have plenty of golf to watch pretty much to the end of the round anyway.

What I like about normal starts is you get to really know the course better. You see early groups play signature holes. Maybe the 2nd is a driveable par 4. 12th an exciting par 5. 15th a tricky par 4 that can catch people out. You then look forward to the leading groups coming to these holes and seeing how those players get on. With shotgun start, the players are all over the course, and I struggle to get my head around what holes they are on, and what ones are coming up. Whether they have an easy or hard run of holes compared to others.

And, from a practical point of view, shotgun start limits the field. Even if the top players in world filled every slot, you still remove the possibility of players just a bit further down the rankings having a good week and getting in the mix.

This post hits the mark on a lot of points for me. Outside of the other contentious issues, the actual format of the golf doesnt really work for me.
I really dont want to see a package of semi decent golf shots from players who have hacked it up for 3 days as a golf tournament is wrapping up. Its basically a pile of no context golf shots.
I want to watch the leaders move as they did on sunday in Canada from the 16th green to the 17th tee and see how they are reacting. I want to see the conversations with the caddies. I want to feel part of the moment as it builds. No one cares about as also ran making a putt at this stage. The only real drama is at the business end. The team element at this stage of a tournament is only a distraction.
Granted some week there will be more than one player able to win and it will have to jump about holes to keep us abreast of the action. This will be intresting to see when the time comes.
Do I want the tried and tested method of showing golf thrown out for this ? Not really. Fine the way it was thanks.

I watched Norman's speech after the event. He said that golf fans had been crying out for team events. I enjoy watching team events. There is plenty of them on offer. The pinnacle being the ryder cup. Do I want them shoehorned into a stroke play event? No, I certainly do not.

 

[Boomy]

Late to the party... (and before I start I am not a Liv cheerleader, I enjoy watching golf, mens, women, amateur and all) Well, I for one enjoyed the first Liv event and hope to see it grow and develop, ideally where the field of players and event becomes the talking point rather than just the money involved (although the PGA tour also seems to focus on the dollar bill and financial rewards so..) My thoughts:

Liv Event Pro's:
*More golf coverage, more golf shots seen and some great camera angles (not Spieth missing a 3 footer repeated and over analysed 38 times in one session)
*Free to view and on youtube which will grow the game as the majority of youngsters watch as much as possible on youtube. They also have shorter attention spans so a shorter event time wise, and lots of action with a shotgun start is like to be more appealing.
*No ad breaks every 3 minutes, you actually got to see a player, play a hole - wow.
*The team aspect - adds another dimension, which once fine tuned I think will add extra value to the viewing. Needs work but is a good starting point.
*Centurion looked a fab track - hoping to see lots of other new courses along the way.

Liv Event Con's:
*The commentary team weren't the best, I'd imagine they will settle into it and develop their rapport.
*The on screen scoreboard wasn't the clearest and easily finding a leaderboard online would help. I do like the modern F1 style of displaying names on screen but it needs to be clear to understand.
*The awards presentation at the end needs work, it was all out of sync and the team presentation was diluted down by their disorganisation, bit cringe at times and ended up being about money at the end - not needed. Keep it organised, simple and about the players/golf.
*Ticket pricing - why try to charge silly money at first events... fill it up for free and promote from within.

They could maybe do a shotgun start, and keep it to 3 days, but have two sessions on days 1 and 2 and a 54 player cut off after the 2 days. Day 1 and 2 shotgun start session 0700-1200 then 1300-1800, then top (maximum) 54 play the final day - that would put more pressure on the team aspect for as many of them to get through as possible to keep scoring.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Wow. So now you’ve moved up a gear and you’re supporting oppression of women.

Can you back up that allegation with some sort of rationale please?

 

[Boomy]

This post hits the mark on a lot of points for me. Outside of the other contentious issues, the actual format of the golf doesnt really work for me.
I really dont want to see a package of semi decent golf shots from players who have hacked it up for 3 days as a golf tournament is wrapping up. Its basically a pile of no context golf shots.
I want to watch the leaders move as they did on sunday in Canada from the 16th green to the 17th tee and see how they are reacting. I want to see the conversations with the caddies. I want to feel part of the moment as it builds. No one cares about as also ran making a putt at this stage. The only real drama is at the business end. The team element at this stage of a tournament is only a distraction.
Granted some week there will be more than one player able to win and it will have to jump about holes to keep us abreast of the action. This will be intresting to see when the time comes.
Do I want the tried and tested method of showing golf thrown out for this ? Not really. Fine the way it was thanks.

I watched Norman's speech after the event. He said that golf fans had been crying out for team events. I enjoy watching team events. There is plenty of them on offer. The pinnacle being the ryder cup. Do I want them shoehorned into a stroke play event? No, I certainly do not.

The problem with some of this is that if Rory had been 8 shots back, rather than tied or in the lead we would still have seen more of him playing that the actual leaders. How often is he 6 or 8 back with 3 to play and we are still seeing the majority of footage about him rather than the actual leader(s) contesting for the win. The coverage is usually dreadful via Sky where you barely see any shots, the majority are putts and repeats. It just happened to work out this weekend with Rory and JT in the lead (two poster boys) and Finau challenging of course. As I said on my post, I'm not a Liv cheerleader, I am a golf fan and really enjoy watching golf but the coverage we have had for many years is generally very poor (barring The Open and Masters which we generally do get better quality coverage with more golf seen) Thats the key for me, I personally want to see more golf when watching it. I think the team aspect needs work and could be a great dynamic of covered and promoted properly.

 

[sunshine]

Can you back up that allegation with some sort of rationale please?

Your assertion that some women don’t want to drive makes it ok for the government to prohibit all women from driving.

Maybe you should start trying to answer some of the questions that have been asked of you on this thread.

 

[sunshine]

Monahan is on about 7 million a year now.

Please can you provide your source for this stat. Thanks.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Your assertion that some women don’t want to drive makes it ok for the government to prohibit all women from driving.

Maybe you should start trying to answer some of the questions that have been asked of you on this thread.

The government don't prohibit all women from driving though do they? I was pointing out that some choose not to, and you make some ridiculous accusation that I'm supporting oppression of women??

Have a day off.

 

[Boomy]

Please can you provide your source for this stat. Thanks.

A TV report/story said a 6.5million dollar a year salary for him, plus bonuses. Also seen it on quite a few articles online if they are to be believed. There was breakdown of PGA finances on a report somewhere via one of the news channels I'll see if I can find it, quite an interesting read.

 

[sunshine]

The problem with some of this is that if Rory had been 8 shots back, rather than tied or in the lead we would still have seen more of him playing that the actual leaders. How often is he 6 or 8 back with 3 to play and we are still seeing the majority of footage about him rather than the actual leader(s) contesting for the win. The coverage is usually dreadful via Sky where you barely see any shots, the majority are putts and repeats. It just happened to work out this weekend with Rory and JT in the lead (two poster boys) and Finau challenging of course. As I said on my post, I'm not a Liv cheerleader, I am a golf fan and really enjoy watching golf but the coverage we have had for many years is generally very poor (barring The Open and Masters which we generally do get better quality coverage with more golf seen) Thats the key for me, I personally want to see more golf when watching it. I think the team aspect needs work and could be a great dynamic of covered and promoted properly.

I partly agree with this. The reason we often see footage of Rory on Sunday when he is out of contention is that this is typically when he plays the best golf of the week, shoots the lights out and secures a back door top 10 or top 5 finish. I think the tv producers are right to broadcast the best golf on show, however they don't do this at the expense of the leaders.

PGA Tour coverage is typically a little frustrating... too many ad breaks, over sentimentality and hype associated with anything made in America.

 

[Boomy]

I partly agree with this. The reason we often see footage of Rory on Sunday when he is out of contention is that this is typically when he plays the best golf of the week, shoots the lights out and secures a back door top 10 or top 5 finish. I think the tv producers are right to broadcast the best golf on show, however they don't do this at the expense of the leaders.

PGA Tour coverage is typically a little frustrating... too many ad breaks, over sentimentality and hype associated with anything made in America.

I partly agree in return, Rory can occasionally turn it on full power on the back 9 on a Sunday but even if he doesn't then we still see a lot of him (the same with Spieth as well) Agreed it is frustrating, we would only like to watch some consistent golf coverage and preferably non biassed.

The bit I've highlighted in bold explains the majority of the problems with the PGA tour and Liv (and anyone else for that matter) - the Americans like to shout loudest about themselves, their players, their courses and generally their everything (control, control) - they don't share well at all so the suggestion of a new kid on the block taking away some of their limelight - that's a no likey at all.

 

[AussieKB]

Can you see the difference between going somewhere for more money, and going somewhere that is hosted by a repressive regime with an appalling human rights records for more money

When I worked in England many years ago, some the English guys had been to Saudi to work, I do not recall one person ever saying that they were bad people with little morals, the main reason they went was for the money.

I think that is the case today for a lot of people, have a look at the workforce there now, plenty Aussies Kiwi's Brit's Asian people etc, all there for the money, I have no problem with that, why just pick on Golfers.

 

[AussieKB]

Why will the DP Tour fold ?

There was only about 7/8 players from the DP in the event ?

Not cease, but bow to the PGA wishes.....sorry I was not clearer.

 

[sunshine]

When I worked in England many years ago, some the English guys had been to Saudi to work, I do not recall one person ever saying that they were bad people with little morals, the main reason they went was for the money.

I think that is the case today for a lot of people, have a look at the workforce there now, plenty Aussies Kiwi's Brit's Asian people etc, all there for the money, I have no problem with that, why just pick on Golfers.

If the golfers admitted they were doing it for the cash there would be little argument. Martin Kaymer was very honest in his interview and as a result nobody is giving him any stick. I think what has irked a lot of people is all this nonsense about growing the game and innovation, while conventiently ignoring that the main motivation is a pile of cash.

Excerpt from Patrick Reed's announcement: "I’m excited to announce that I have joined LIV Golf, and being part of this new and innovative league. I look forward to growing the game of golf"

 

[sunshine]

Are they promoting this? I don't think, if LIV is successful, people in the UK will start to believe that women should only be able to drive if they have permission from the man in their lives. Do you think this is the purpose of LIV?

Do you not understand the purpose of LIV? It is not a standalone profit making venture, it will make a massive loss intentionally. It is a long term PR exercise to soften the perception of Saudi Arabia in the western world (I don't believe the goal is to enforce Sharia law in the UK). This is known as sportswashing.

 

[Bdill93]

Do you not understand the purpose of LIV? It is not a standalone profit making venture, it will make a massive loss intentionally. It is a long term PR exercise to soften the perception of Saudi Arabia in the western world (I don't believe the goal is to enforce Sharia law in the UK). This is known as sportswashing.

But if theyre allowed to go into every other sport I do not understand why golf has to be the sport to take the moral high ground?

I certainly think its a generational thing, but so many of my friends could not care less about all these arguments, all we care about is the entertainment on offer - we are not politicians.

 

[sweaty sock]

But if theyre allowed to go into every other sport I do not understand why golf has to be the sport to take the moral high ground?

I certainly think its a generational thing, but so many of my friends could not care less about all these arguments, all we care about is the entertainment on offer - we are not politicians.

I thought it was a loss leader to diversify their industry in anticipation of the oil running out?

They've invested alot more in technology and computer gaming than they will in golf.

Id expect similar soon from alot of countries in similar situation, Qatar, Dubai, etc etc

 

[sunshine]

I've decided to start posting on this thread now the event is done. I've followed it but not read every post in full (@swango - you make good points but try and be a bit more concise ).

Some observations:
- Mel Smooth started off with a contrary point of view which really added balance and was very welcome. I liked his original contributions but his posts have descended into a bizarre and shameless mouthpiece for LIV and Saudi, a mix of propoganda and fake news.
- Is PaulJames really G1z1? Although one purports to be Scottish and one English, there are remarkable similarities in grammar and posting style. Can the mods check IP addresses?
- Why do some posters love laying in to LiverpoolPhil? I understand that some disagree with him, but as an example he stated he had turned down work in Saudi and I don't get it why some people questioned it and even denied it?
- Can we all just agree that this was an exhibition event to promote Saudi Arabia. The whole thing has been crass in the extreme and the narrative of growing the game is pure nonsense. Let's just be candid and then we can move on to discussing the actual golf.
- Not much chat about the actual golf, but this event has got golf on the front pages for a change so would be good to see the golfing authorities / industry (both old and new) taking advantage of it.

 

[Beezerk]

I don’t mind heated debate but calling individuals out like that ^^^^ is crass and very poor taste imo.

 

[AussieKB]

If the golfers admitted they were doing it for the cash there would be little argument. Martin Kaymer was very honest in his interview and as a result nobody is giving him any stick. I think what has irked a lot of people is all this nonsense about growing the game and innovation, while conventiently ignoring that the main motivation is a pile of cash.

Excerpt from Patrick Reed's announcement: "I’m excited to announce that I have joined LIV Golf, and being part of this new and innovative league. I look forward to growing the game of golf"

Have seen many saying it is for financial security....

 

[Boomy]

I've decided to start posting on this thread now the event is done. I've followed it but not read every post in full (@swango - you make good points but try and be a bit more concise ).

Some observations:
- Mel Smooth started off with a contrary point of view which really added balance and was very welcome. I liked his original contributions but his posts have descended into a bizarre and shameless mouthpiece for LIV and Saudi, a mix of propoganda and fake news.
- Is PaulJames really G1z1? Although one purports to be Scottish and one English, there are remarkable similarities in grammar and posting style. Can the mods check IP addresses?
- Why do some posters love laying in to LiverpoolPhil? I understand that some disagree with him, but as an example he stated he had turned down work in Saudi and I don't get it why some people questioned it and even denied it?
- Can we all just agree that this was an exhibition event to promote Saudi Arabia. The whole thing has been crass in the extreme and the narrative of growing the game is pure nonsense. Let's just be candid and then we can move on to discussing the actual golf.
- Not much chat about the actual golf, but this event has got golf on the front pages for a change so would be good to see the golfing authorities / industry (both old and new) taking advantage of it.

I chatted about the golf and coverage (and ways it may/could improve) for me its all about the golf.

The only bit i really feel the need to respond to is around it being an exhibition event and crass to the extreme - is that not a weekly occurrence on the PGA tour events? You said yourself about the "over sentimentality and hype associated with anything made in America" The PGA tour wants to be number 1 and Liv wants to be number 1 - that is never going to play out well... it would be better for viewers/golfers/fans and everyone if people were able to work together to add value to the game. Which won't happen.