Inflation of Greens Fees for the Top UK Courses

[Sats]

Wow, that's extreme. For £395 I could book a weekend at the belfry eat dinner, have drinks and still play on a lovely course. I'd play on those courses if that money was disposable to me, but honestly I could go the rest of my life not playing those courses and not feel like I've missed out.

 

[Slab]

Some of those green fees are eye watering (although I do wonder how many (as a proportion) actually pay that top rate)

Odd though that when the talk was about bifurcation the opposition was ‘we can play the same course with the same equipment etc’…. But this suggests that all too often it would seem that (financially at least) these prices mean we really can’t play the same course nor do we use the same 10k bag of clubs

 

[evemccc]

Some of those green fees are eye watering (although I do wonder how many (as a proportion) actually pay that top rate)

Odd though that when the talk was about bifurcation the opposition was ‘we can play the same course with the same equipment etc’…. But this suggests that all too often it would seem that (financially at least) these prices mean we really can’t play the same course nor do we use the same 10k bag of clubs

Exactly

Not that we can play Augusta, but for those members who can, the course is nothing like the course at the Sunday Masters

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I look at these visitors green fees and i shrug with some resigned sadness that I doubt I’ll ever play most of them...and some regret that I didn’t try and play more of them when they were less expensive - though still relatively unaffordable to me when they were. Why sad...well in many ways I love the history and traditions of the game we play almost as much as actually playing the game.

And so for instance when I visited and played Westward Ho many years ago (30 to be precise - it was my stag weekend and we also played Saunton East) it was as much the J H Taylor links and the clubs history that made the visit for me - to be in some small way close to a very important part of the history of the game as I sat in the clubhouse with its historical display and walking in the footsteps of Taylor and the other greats of his time who walked the same fairways as I.

And that is the deep attraction that the great Open and other great old courses hold for me - and so other side of coin is that I’m not really that bothered about playing any modern/new ‘great’ course...they tend just to be great golf courses. But at today’s prices I really struggle, in fact I can’t justify paying what’s being asked even if i could ‘afford’ it. I know it’s market forces etc - but that doesn’t take from my ‘sadness‘ or regret that it has come to pass. And so for the most part I have simply closed down any thinking I might have about visiting and playing these historic ‘greats’...the most part - don‘t let my wife know ?

 

[Golfnut1957]

I did think of posting a thread called "who does England golf represent".

I think they say the English clubs and their members, but I think they are failing the latter massively on this subject.

For people who say its market forces. Well do we just accept it if it eventually means that "our" courses are full of Americans, Asians and Europeans due to exchange rates and GDP? Courses that were built for and supported by us, and supported by our money for the first century of their existence most of the time. Quite a lot of those courses are also famous due to the Open, or British open, if you will.

The Scottish tend to offer county rates and Scottish resident rates, so why not do the same down here, and why arent England Golf pushing for this? Muirfield caved in due to pressure to admit female members, so why can't the same type of pressure be applied?

Even if they have the less popular times available for the discounted rates like late afternoon or during the week, even if your restricted to only getting that rate once every 2-3 years or something, so that the members dont get uppity, if the course is booked solidly due to reduced rates. IMO there should be rates throughout the UK and Ireland, with something along these lines, as follows:-

Same county, or neighbouring countie(s) - 50% discount

National rate (available to people or club members who are resident in that country) - 40% discount

GB & I rate - 30% discount

You should.

It is my belief that England Golf is run by a bunch of men all wearing the same colour tie who have an interest in elite amateurs and not much else.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I’ll add...that my ‘sadness‘ is tempered by the fact that I am fortunate enough to be a member of a great club that celebrates its 125th birthday this year - a club with very close ties to Bobby Locke and through him with a young Gary Player, and a course that such as Braid and Vardon played back in the day. We have just recently put up a great set of pages on our website on the clubs history with lots of old photos and documents...love it ??

 

[evemccc]

I look at these visitors green fees and i shrug with some resigned sadness that I doubt I’ll ever play most of them...and some regret that I didn’t try and play more of them when they were less expensive - though still relatively unaffordable to me when they were. Why sad...well in many ways I love the history and traditions of the game we play almost as much as actually playing the game.

And so for instance when I visited and played Westward Ho many years ago (30 to be precise - it was my stag weekend and we also played Staunton East) it was as much the J H Taylor links and the clubs history that made the visit for me - to be in some small way close to a very important part of the history of the game as I sat in the clubhouse with its historical display and walking in the footsteps of Taylor and the other greats of his time who walked the same fairways as I.

And that is the deep attraction that the great Open and other great old courses hold for me - and so other side of coin is that I’m not really that bothered about playing any modern/new ‘great’ course...they tend just to be great golf courses. But at today’s prices I really struggle, in fact I can’t justify paying what’s being asked even if i could ‘afford’ it. I know it’s market forces etc - but that doesn’t take from my ‘sadness‘ or regret that it has come to pass. And so for the most part I have simply closed down any thinking I might have about visiting and playing these historic ‘greats’...the most part - don‘t let my wife know ?

Fantastic post. This is mostly how I feel...

I'd clearly bite someone's hand off if they paid for me to play at Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns, and by all accounts the work that Ebert has done at Turnberry is a definite upgrade (as with their upgrade work at many courses) but I would never pay to play those places - the expense, yes. But also I'm a fan of history, and its the history of these famous old courses and clubhouses that get to me.

I wanted to play Hoylake this winter....obvs couldn't because of Covid...I look and see their Winter fee has gone up by not far off 20% for next year...I tell myself 'If you don't do it now'..etc etc

 

[Deleted member 17920]

I did think of posting a thread called "who does England golf represent".

I think they say the English clubs and their members, but I think they are failing the latter massively on this subject.

For people who say its market forces. Well do we just accept it if it eventually means that "our" courses are full of Americans, Asians and Europeans due to exchange rates and GDP? Courses that were built for and supported by us, and supported by our money for the first century of their existence most of the time. Quite a lot of those courses are also famous due to the Open, or British open, if you will.

The Scottish tend to offer county rates and Scottish resident rates, so why not do the same down here, and why arent England Golf pushing for this? Muirfield caved in due to pressure to admit female members, so why can't the same type of pressure be applied?

Even if they have the less popular times available for the discounted rates like late afternoon or during the week, even if your restricted to only getting that rate once every 2-3 years or something, so that the members dont get uppity, if the course is booked solidly due to reduced rates. IMO there should be rates throughout the UK and Ireland, with something along these lines, as follows:-

Same county, or neighbouring countie(s) - 50% discount

National rate (available to people or club members who are resident in that country) - 40% discount

GB & I rate - 30% discount

England Golf are the governing body of the game in England for amateur golf.

They are not business owners so they cant force any club into offering a green fee discount, that is what the county card is for as loyalty for golf club members in England.

Then its down to each individual club to accept the county card.

As you will know a lot of the top top courses dont accept the county cards and I have no idea why but its there decision as a business and unfortunately its the clubs own policy on setting green fee prices and any loyalty offering.

There are a few of the top clubs in Scotland that offer a local green fee but I dont believe it is that many but I stand to be corrected, it showed last year when some brought down green fees considerably to show how much they are truly overcharging the american market. There was some serious deals to be had last year and I imagine this year will be the same.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

Best example I've seen of treating locals better than tourists is St Andrews - the Links website hasn't published prices for 21-22 yet but they quote full price for the Old Course for 2020 at £195 and a resident of St Andrews could have played it for £49.

If you a resident in St Andrews why wouldnt you a members on the links

 

[Deleted member 25172]

I did think of posting a thread called "who does England golf represent".

I think they say the English clubs and their members, but I think they are failing the latter massively on this subject.

For people who say its market forces. Well do we just accept it if it eventually means that "our" courses are full of Americans, Asians and Europeans due to exchange rates and GDP? Courses that were built for and supported by us, and supported by our money for the first century of their existence most of the time. Quite a lot of those courses are also famous due to the Open, or British open, if you will.

The Scottish tend to offer county rates and Scottish resident rates, so why not do the same down here, and why arent England Golf pushing for this? Muirfield caved in due to pressure to admit female members, so why can't the same type of pressure be applied?

Even if they have the less popular times available for the discounted rates like late afternoon or during the week, even if your restricted to only getting that rate once every 2-3 years or something, so that the members dont get uppity, if the course is booked solidly due to reduced rates. IMO there should be rates throughout the UK and Ireland, with something along these lines, as follows:-

Same county, or neighbouring countie(s) - 50% discount

National rate (available to people or club members who are resident in that country) - 40% discount

GB & I rate - 30% discount

I'd really like for it to be done in this way, but I don't think that's in line with reality unfortunately. A lot based on what I'm reading here, as although most seem to agree that the prices are way over the top, there's a lot of people who are willing to "treat themselves" every once in a while to play these courses that come in at £200+.

A quick check tells me there's about 1 million golfers in the UK who plays once or twice a month. If we just take 5%, which I don't think is an exaggerated number (although don't have anything to back this up with really other than speaking to everyone I know who plays golf), that's 50,000 "treat myself rounds" from the UK only. Split that out on say the top 50 courses and that's 1,000 rounds a year for each course, bringing in some fairly serious dosh. Add overseas golfers and corporate bookings on top of that and I don't see any chance of prices go down or even to slow down.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Know this will be slightly against the flow, but how many of you run a business that sells to locals, national and international ?

If you do, do you discount(massively) different for those markets or would you?

I know I wouldn't and don't to be honest, the price is my price, you could be english, Belgium, welsh, from herts or london or overseas doesn't make a difference to my price ......

Anyone can be a busy fool in business, as the saying goes. Birkdale could price it at £50 a round and have every tee time filled, but why do that......

That said the prices are stupid and way to high and most of the time isnt worth it

 

[davidy233]

If you a resident in St Andrews why wouldnt you a members on the links

Logically I'd say that is the sensible thing to do but the £49 deal is for any resident

I was mistaken earlier when I said that a handicap is required - that's only for the Old Course, they have reduced resident prices for all the courses.

 

[jim8flog]

For me it is simple - it is just a a game of golf.

I would not even pay the green fees for a visitor at my own club just for a game of golf.

 

[patricks148]

I did think of posting a thread called "who does England golf represent".

I think they say the English clubs and their members, but I think they are failing the latter massively on this subject.

For people who say its market forces. Well do we just accept it if it eventually means that "our" courses are full of Americans, Asians and Europeans due to exchange rates and GDP? Courses that were built for and supported by us, and supported by our money for the first century of their existence most of the time. Quite a lot of those courses are also famous due to the Open, or British open, if you will.

The Scottish tend to offer county rates and Scottish resident rates, so why not do the same down here, and why arent England Golf pushing for this? Muirfield caved in due to pressure to admit female members, so why can't the same type of pressure be applied?

Even if they have the less popular times available for the discounted rates like late afternoon or during the week, even if your restricted to only getting that rate once every 2-3 years or something, so that the members dont get uppity, if the course is booked solidly due to reduced rates. IMO there should be rates throughout the UK and Ireland, with something along these lines, as follows:-

Same county, or neighbouring countie(s) - 50% discount

National rate (available to people or club members who are resident in that country) - 40% discount

GB & I rate - 30% discount

Alas the SG hasn't done much for local golfers either, apart from the odd club, most of the deals are not there any longer, i think the best of the unions is the Irish one they do appear to offer a reduced reasonable rate to locals.
Most yanks don't have a clue what they are paying, for many of the clubs that do get overseas visitors you can get away with charging what you like, you get less visitors which members like and still get the same or more money coming in.

if i wanted to play Dornoch for instance i'd still have to pay £210, there is no local offer, they couldn't care less if locals can't play, why would they. they can, our could get close to 20,000 overseas visitors. my clubs the same, we don't get anywhere close the the same numbers they do and membership isn't subsidized as much.. already prompted for a big rise next year.


as you say Members should be putting pressure on the unions to do something about this, it is one of the great things about the sport is you can get to play the same courses as some of the greats of the game, not just the wealthy

 

[KenL]

For me it is simple - it is just a a game of golf.

I would not even pay the green fees for a visitor at my own club just for a game of golf.

How much do they charge?

 

[davidy233]

Thing is if you are traveling and staying overnight you are a tourist - whether American, Japanese, Chinese, English, Scottish - why would a club/course discriminate amongst them.

Discounts for locals - yep - for tourists - nope

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Alas the SG hasn't done much for local golfers either, apart from the odd club, most of the deals are not there any longer, i think the best of the unions is the Irish one they do appear to offer a reduced reasonable rate to locals.
Most yanks don't have a clue what they are paying, for many of the clubs that do get overseas visitors you can get away with charging what you like, you get less visitors which members like and still get the same or more money coming in.

if i wanted to play Dornoch for instance i'd still have to pay £210, there is no local offer, they couldn't care less if locals can't play, why would they. they can, our could get close to 20,000 overseas visitors. my clubs the same, we don't get anywhere close the the same numbers they do and membership isn't subsidized as much.. already promed for a big rise next year.


as you say Members should be putting pressure on the unions to do something about this, it is one of the great things about the sport is you can get to play the same courses as some of the greats of the game, not just the wealthy

If Dornoch couldn't care less how are they going to make up this shortfall of 20000 paying £210 a pop. Not going to many travelling to the UK this year either I doubt.

 

[Mandofred]

For me it is simple - it is just a a game of golf.

I would not even pay the green fees for a visitor at my own club just for a game of golf.

That's what I've said before. If it wasn't for membership, there is no way I'd be playing 100+ rounds of golf a year, and likely wouldn't be playing golf at all.

 

[patricks148]

If Dornoch couldn't care less how are they going to make up this shortfall of 20000 paying £210 a pop. Not going to many travelling to the UK this year either I doubt.

No idea mate, they do have the luxury of £5 million in the bank, but there is talk of them doubling the membership fee, but no idea if thats true or not. most visitors would be subject to a discount as they tend to go through tours so the club don't get the full fee. They will still a get a few visitors, all the memebrs of Donald Ross courses in the States love to come over and play where he grew up.

 

[Rlburnside]

I've only played 2 courses that have been expensive, Trump International which was a present from my kids and Royal Dornoch which was part of a tour I took of the highlands, I would pay for a top course again but it would have to be a special occasion..

I think there should be some kind of reduced rate so that the average golfer could experience these courses, but it's a business so can understand why this doesn't happen.

I was paired up with 3 Americans when I played Dornoch and it was different to anyone I've ever played with before, they seemed to be there for the experience rather than the enjoyment of getting the best score they could ( mulligans etc) something quite strange alien to me.