Inflation of Greens Fees for the Top UK Courses

[sunshine]

Thanks for sharing. Interesting data and a good debate, although rather a sad one

It would be really interesting to see a chart illustrating the progressive increases of the green fees over the last 20 years. I don't think it's been a steady rise, I'm guessing more likely an explosion over the last 5 years.

I think the significant weakening of sterling following the outcome of the brexit referendum has played a significant role. £100 green fee was $150, we had a referendum and then £125 was $150. Courses that attract tourists have been able to hike green fees in GBP whilst maintaining a similar price for tourists thinking in USD, EUR or JPY.

 

[IanM]

Could be, and they haven't come down again as exchange rates have adjusted ?

Speaking a while ago to the manager of one such course, I know they control traffic by adjusting price. If start getting too many green fees they put the price up. If that doesn't fix it they keep going.

 

[DCB]

This will make you cry. Saw this on FB the other day, someone reminiscing of their student days in St Andrews. Its out of a book from the early 1970s.

In 2000 I declined paying £60 to play Royal County Down as they were clearing the course after the Seniors Open. I'll certainly not be playing it at current rates.

 

[davidy233]

Thanks for sharing. Interesting data and a good debate, although rather a sad one

It would be really interesting to see a chart illustrating the progressive increases of the green fees over the last 20 years. I don't think it's been a steady rise, I'm guessing more likely an explosion over the last 5 years.

I think the significant weakening of sterling following the outcome of the brexit referendum has played a significant role. £100 green fee was $150, we had a referendum and then £125 was $150. Courses that attract tourists have been able to hike green fees in GBP whilst maintaining a similar price for tourists thinking in USD, EUR or JPY.

US dollar to Pound exchange rate is almost exactly the same as it was five years ago

 

[sunshine]

We play a lot in the USA and most Florida courses have three rack rates.
So OCN is a Q school course in Orlando.
Visitors $120 approx
Florida resident $80?
Orlando resident $60.

This is the norm in the USA.
So no reason that courses here could not do it.
Their exclusive so don’t want lots of people turning up for cheap rounds but £375 is a bit much.
I would not pay that for 18 holes anywhere maybe Augusta that’s it.

That is market forces in operation. The OCN isn't well known enough as a golf venue so offers discounts to encourage local residents to play.

I expect that the UK courses in the list above don't need to offer a tiered rack rate because there are enough visitors willing to pay full whack. A visitor is a visitor, Muirfield (for example) probably couldn't care less if that visitor comes from Edinburgh Scotland or Edinburgh Indiana.

 

[davidy233]

That’s good .
But not heard of anything like that here.
We have a county card but the big open courses are not on it as far as I know.

Actually i just looked to see if the 50% discount still applied to the Championship course at Carnoustie and it does - in addition an Angus resident wouldn't even need to be a member of one of the courses in the county - though they do need a handicap of 28 or less - Link to Angus resident booking

 

[sunshine]

US dollar to Pound exchange rate is almost exactly the same as it was five years ago

I don't know where you get your data from, but 5 years ago the rate was 1.45 and now it's 1.37 which is nowhere near the same.

However, I should have known the pedants would come out.

I used 5 years as an indication, but I was specifically referring to the referendum and the trend in rates. Over the historical period being discussed (2000-2020) GBPUSD tended to be above 1.50 prior to 2016, and in fact for several periods you could have bought $2 with £1.

Significantly, following the June 2016 referendum, GBP weakened significantly against USD (and other currencies). For 4 years GBPUSD has mainly traded in the 1.20 - 1.30 range. This represents a large percentage change for us in the UK compared to the 10 previous years.

The green fees in the data provided are for 2020. These would have been set pre-COVID in anticipation of another busy summer tourist season, so the evolution of the GBPUSD FX rate during the pandemic is 2020 is entirely irrelevant. Of course, what we have seen is that the global slump in the oil price, driven by huge reduction in demand, has caused dollar weakness. Since the world went into lockdown in March 2020, GBP has recovered against USD, meaning that we now see a rate of 1.37, although this is perhaps irrelevant as we are unlikely to see many foreign visitors to the UK this year.

Is that ok?

 

[SatchFan]

If people are willing and daft enough to actually pay those prices I can't see a problem.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

I don't know where you get your data from, but 5 years ago the rate was 1.45 and now it's 1.37 which is nowhere near the same.

However, I should have known the pedants would come out.

I used 5 years as an indication, but I was specifically referring to the referendum and the trend in rates. Over the historical period being discussed (2000-2020) GBPUSD tended to be above 1.50 prior to 2016, and in fact for several periods you could have bought $2 with £1.

Significantly, following the June 2016 referendum, GBP weakened significantly against USD (and other currencies). For 4 years GBPUSD has mainly traded in the 1.20 - 1.30 range. This represents a large percentage change for us in the UK compared to the 10 previous years.

The green fees in the data provided are for 2020. These would have been set pre-COVID in anticipation of another busy summer tourist season, so the evolution of the GBPUSD FX rate during the pandemic is 2020 is entirely irrelevant. Of course, what we have seen is that the global slump in the oil price, driven by huge reduction in demand, has caused dollar weakness. Since the world went into lockdown in March 2020, GBP has recovered against USD, meaning that we now see a rate of 1.37, although this is perhaps irrelevant as we are unlikely to see many foreign visitors to the UK this year.

Is that ok?

someone needs to tell @sunshine that @Liverpoolphil has hacked his account ?

 

[Deleted member 17920]

Must be bored, he posted that last summer!

No thanks but if people want to pay that then good look to them.

Personally I'm happy to play golf at a great course that is superb value and feel no need to travel the country and pay hugely inflated green fees.

Your club is in the same bracket as mine. Both out of the way so green fees are still reasonable.

Now if both were in closer proximity to a motorway or other top 100 courses both would be a lot more and membership costs would be double.

 

[Robster59]

Supply and Demand. These "Premium" courses will keep upping their fees while people continue to keep paying them.
As other people have said though is that the knock-on effect is the lesser courses in the area also increasing their rates because of the prices of the big courses around them.
TBH, for the money these people charge for a round, I could do a lot of other things.
Four or fives rounds over the courses in the list would pay for a years membership at my club.

 

[birdyhunter]

Maybe they're trying to keep the riff-raff out.. people who can't afford long socks or tailored shorts

 

[Imurg]

If people are willing and daft enough to actually pay those prices I can't see a problem.

The trouble is that it can put those courses out of reach of many people who can't justify £55an hour(average) plus caddy, food and drink and travel to play 18 holes.
Add those factors and, well, I can't even guess how much a trip to play Turnberry at over 20 quid a hole +extras.
If you've got the money then, yeah, no worries. It's yours to spend as you wish
It's too much for many, even some who can afford it will look at those numbers and think...Nah....
I would find it hard to justify paying full whack for any of those courses no matter how good they are

 

[jim8flog]

What would be interesting is to compare membership fees over the same 20 period. I bet it would be something in the region of twice the amount.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Few on there I would still like to play and if I have to pay full whack so be it, although I hope that Roddy Tours pay them a visit.

That said I'm now getting to a stage of my golfing life where I'm as happy to play some of the supposed "lesser lights" as there is no way you are playing the full championship course, and no way my game is up to the full championship course even if I were allowed.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

The trouble is that it can put those courses out of reach of many people who can't justify £55an hour(average) plus caddy, food and drink and travel to play 18 holes.
Add those factors and, well, I can't even guess how much a trip to play Turnberry at over 20 quid a hole +extras.
If you've got the money then, yeah, no worries. It's yours to spend as you wish
It's too much for many, even some who can afford it will look at those numbers and think...Nah....
I would find it hard to justify paying full whack for any of those courses no matter how good they are

Thing is it's not 'us' that's the target audience. It's yanks and Japanese and there is an endless supply of them willing to pay over inflated prices.

 

[SatchFan]

The trouble is that it can put those courses out of reach of many people who can't justify £55an hour(average) plus caddy, food and drink and travel to play 18 holes.
Add those factors and, well, I can't even guess how much a trip to play Turnberry at over 20 quid a hole +extras.
If you've got the money then, yeah, no worries. It's yours to spend as you wish
It's too much for many, even some who can afford it will look at those numbers and think...Nah....
I would find it hard to justify paying full whack for any of those courses no matter how good they are

Your last sentence sums up my feelings exactly.

 

[Imurg]

Thing is it's not 'us' that's the target audience. It's yanks and Japanese and there is an endless supply of them willing to pay over inflated prices.

Absolutely but it still prices a lot of us out of the market...

 

[davidy233]

Thanks for sharing. Interesting data and a good debate, although rather a sad one

It would be really interesting to see a chart illustrating the progressive increases of the green fees over the last 20 years. I don't think it's been a steady rise, I'm guessing more likely an explosion over the last 5 years.

I think the significant weakening of sterling following the outcome of the brexit referendum has played a significant role. £100 green fee was $150, we had a referendum and then £125 was $150. Courses that attract tourists have been able to hike green fees in GBP whilst maintaining a similar price for tourists thinking in USD, EUR or JPY.

You asked about historical fees

A round on the Championship in 2015 (I know because I played it) at Carnoustie was £170 in 2021 it's £270.

I'm sure you can work out whether that's 'a similar price' for an American visitor this year.

 

[Zig]

I posted about this around xmas time.... last year (between lockdowns) there were lots of good offers to play several Scottish courses to Scottish residents, but nothing for us those of us south of the border, and the 'big' courses here don't seem to offer anything like to England Golf members. Shame, cos the GUI/IGU certainly seem to look after their own too.

Like many, I think the full price fees are excessive (even though I understand it's like a footy fan getting to play at Wembley/Anfield etc). I've played a handful, usually taking advantage of shoulder season - when Easter falls at the end of March, RCD and Portrush are exceptional value, and the St Andrews winter offer is fab too (provided you get the weather and you don't mind hitting off a mat).

I keep hoping there'll be some summer offers (and not just for Irish/Scottish residents) this year as those on the list which rely on overseas visitors will surely see a big fall in visitor numbers... wishful thinking maybe!