Handicap

[patricks148]

Hi mate. I'm fairly new to the forum (have been a lurker for a while but not posted yet) but felt inclined to comment on your post. I'm 24 years old and have just started playing golf about June last year, as I felt it would be a new sport that a) fills the void now I've stopped boxing after 13 years and b) goes well with my job (I'm a Financial Adviser) and c) take after my Dad who is a low handicapper who has enjoyed some solid successes over the past 15 years. I've just joined my first club and I am still having regular lessons with an ex-pro who was fantastic back in the day.

Unfortunately, it is attitudes displayed in your post that puts off so many young people from getting into the sport. I am fairly thick skinned so I don't mind the sweeping generalisation as I know it to be a form of snobbery, but so many of my friends straight up refuse to join a club (despite wanting to get into the sport) because they don't wish to be belittled or taken the mickey out of because they aren't a "good" player yet. These kind of sweeping statements are why golf memberships are dropping and new people don't want to get involved - the sport is portrayed as elitist, exclusive and is consequentially quite daunting for someone on the outside looking in.

The handicap system is all about making the sport inclusive, so a novice can play with an expert on a level playing field. There's no hope if these "experts" refuse to acknowledge this.

Welcome.

I'm sure Parsaregood will answer you in due course

But Firstly i don't agree with your point about handicap snobbery stopping people taking up golf, many things may, but handicap snobbery isn't one of them IMO.

also who says he can't chose to play with who ever he likes and the standard of play that suites him, if its his past time and you want to enjoy and game why shouldn't you be allowed to play with who you like?
anyway if you are a boxer, i doubt many would make fun or belittle you anyway

 

[UtopianAsh]

Welcome.

I'm sure Parsaregood will answer you in due course

But Firstly i don't agree with your point about handicap snobbery stopping people taking up golf, many things may, but handicap snobbery isn't one of them IMO.

also who says he can't chose to play with who ever he likes and the standard of play that suites him, if its his past time and you want to enjoy and game why shouldn't you be allowed to play with who you like?
anyway if you are a boxer, i doubt many would make fun or belittle you anyway

Thanks!

Honestly, a lot of my mates are worried starting because of their low skill level and the pressures they will face re slow play, mickey taking etc. I played 9 holes with one of my close friends at the weekend and he straight up refused to look for his ball in the rough behind the green because another group had got to the tee, saying he didn't want to hold anyone up. I told him he was being daft but he said he felt the group had put unnecessary pressure on him by refusing our offer to go past.

Also - point taken with deciding who to play with. However, my point would be if he is getting paired with low handicappers he is likely playing a competition, which means he can't choose his partner / opposition, and his attitude to someone who has equally not chosen to play with him isn't within the spirit of golf. Perhaps it is? Like I said, I am new to playing, though not new to following the sport.

 

[hovis]

It isn't pararegoods responsibility to make high handicap golfers welcome or encourage youngsters into the sport. He has a preference to who he wants to play golf with and knows what he requires to get the most enjoyment out of his game. If I was betting man I'd say when he does get matched up with high hc golfers he just grins and bears it and makes the golfer welcome. He still isn't doing anything wrong

I feel his pain. I absolutely despise looking for golf balls on every hole and waiting for a golfer to take 3 provisional balls off the tee. And yes it does take away from my enjoyment. However, these are good friends of mine and that is more important than my enjoyment of a particular round. Plus, it gives me something to make fun of them

 

[rosecott]

It isn't pararegoods responsibility to make high handicap golfers welcome or encourage youngsters into the sport.

Hold on, he is a member of a club and, as in any other sport, he has a responsibility to the club as a whole to use his skills, knowledge and experience for the benefit of the club as a whole.

 

[UtopianAsh]

It isn't pararegoods responsibility to make high handicap golfers welcome or encourage youngsters into the sport.

That's proved my point really mate, that the elitist attitude of people puts off people joining / playing the sport, hence the membership issues etc.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It isn't pararegoods responsibility to make high handicap golfers welcome or encourage youngsters into the sport. He has a preference to who he wants to play golf with and knows what he requires to get the most enjoyment out of his game. If I was betting man I'd say when he does get matched up with high hc golfers he just grins and bears it and makes the golfer welcome. He still isn't doing anything wrong

I feel his pain. I absolutely despise looking for golf balls on every hole and waiting for a golfer to take 3 provisional balls off the tee. And yes it does take away from my enjoyment. However, these are good friends of mine and that is more important than my enjoyment of a particular round. Plus, it gives me something to make fun of them

I don’t think that’s strictly right - surely it’s up to us all to welcome new people to the game and to ensure any newcomer is felt that it’s an inclusive game and all our welcome regardless of ability. We should all feel some sort of responsibility towards the game and the future of the game

 

[hovis]

Hold on, he is a member of a club and, as in any other sport, he has a responsibility to the club as a whole to use his skills, knowledge and experience for the benefit of the club as a whole.

Where does it say that? There is nothing wrong with paying your subs and playing a round of golf with your "chosen" group of golfers. I understand he can't walk around with a sandwich board reading "high handicap golfers suck". I can't see the committee dragging you forward and saying " we're not happy you only play in a cat 1 group

He has no responsibility to use his skills for the betterment of the club. He simply has to pay his money and follow the clubs rules. Just don't then expect to be the most popular bloke in the club house

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So are you saying that to make you happy he has to make himself unhappy? He's not going around hanging high handicap golfers from trees. He's simply being picky about who he plays golf with. That's he's perogative.

My post was more a general post about all of us - yes people can play with whoever they want but when people display the attitude that playing with certain people is below them it’s doesnt paint a good picture and you would hope that attitude isn’t displayed around the club. Golf already has an image that screams elitism so you would hope that it’s up to us to try and dispel that myth - if someone who was looking to start playing read his posts then they would think twice

Just seen your edit 👍

 

[hovis]

That's proved my point really mate, that the elitist attitude of people puts off people joining / playing the sport, hence the membership issues etc.

So are you saying that to make you happy he has to make himself unhappy? He's not going around hanging high handicap golfers from trees. He's simply being picky about who he plays golf with. That's he's perogative. It's your wish to be made to feel less insecure but what about what he wants. Is he not entitled to that

 

[hovis]

My post was more a general post about all of us - yes people can play with whoever they want but when people display the attitude that playing with certain people is below them it’s doesnt paint a good picture and you would hope that attitude isn’t displayed around the club. Golf already has an image that screams elitism so you would hope that it’s up to us to try and dispel that myth - if someone who was looking to start playing read his posts then they would think twice

Sorry Phil. I had to edit my post. It wasn't aimed at your response

 

[hovis]

My post was more a general post about all of us - yes people can play with whoever they want but when people display the attitude that playing with certain people is below them it’s doesnt paint a good picture and you would hope that attitude isn’t displayed around the club. Golf already has an image that screams elitism so you would hope that it’s up to us to try and dispel that myth - if someone who was looking to start playing read his posts then they would think twice

Just seen your edit 👍

And I agree with everything you've written. Whilst I don't advocate such behaviour I don't like the self entitled thoughts some people have on how they "must" be treated so they are happy.

 

[Grantley1988]

I have a good attitude towards playing partners and am pretty talkative. Hit poor shots all the time but do my best to hit the next one good, I try and shoot under par when I play not par

You should change your user name..

 

[Homer]

Play with ex pro and a couple of + handicappers regularly. Nicest guys ever to play with and they make no distinction about their ability and others. In fact I've had a 75+ year old who doesn't hit it far, shuffles along and plays off 18+ and never have they ever mentioned not playing with him as he's too short, too slow or worry its dragging their own game down. As I said, whether its a preference or not I find the whole attitude very sad, especially the fact that even in a club medal, with players paying their money same as you, that you'd rather ignore them as they aren't as good as you

Who are those players? Never heard of anyone good there other than Reidy.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Who are those players? Never heard of anyone good there other than Reidy.

As always with your replies, jumping to conclusions again. We have a Zimbabwe member who played regularly on the sunshine tours in South Africa in the 70's who was ex-pro and still off 1. Our former pro has been rocking up for weekend roll ups. Bottom line is who are you that I have to justify the response to

 

[bobmac]

The way I read it is 'Parsaregood' will and has played social golf and bounce games with higher h/caps and that's fine but when it comes to playing competitions, he plays better and can concentrate more when he isn't distracted. This can be people walking over his line, hunting for balls, calling people through, getting cold hanging around etc. I would be the same.

I have seen golfers who are quite new to the game fall apart playing with cat I golfers as they try and 'keep up' and they end up trying to hit it too hard which makes them worse.
If they are happier playing with golfers of a similar standard, how is that different from what Parsaregood wants?

 

[UtopianAsh]

So are you saying that to make you happy he has to make himself unhappy? He's not going around hanging high handicap golfers from trees. He's simply being picky about who he plays golf with. That's he's perogative. It's your wish to be made to feel less insecure but what about what he wants. Is he not entitled to that

I'm not saying that at all. It is his prerogative to pick who he's playing with out of competition. When being randomly paired with someone he has no say in whether it's someone off 18 or someone off scratch.

I must be mad to think the proper thing to do in the situations he mentioned is for him to politely tell the newcomer / high handicapper what they are doing wrong (i.e. walking in the line of putt etc.)

Essentially, my opinion is when playing for leisure he can pick and choose who he plays with. When he doesn't have the luxury of choosing his partner, I think it would be better etiquette to show the person respect and use his experience to educate the person further?

 

[chrisd]

I'm not saying that at all. It is his prerogative to pick who he's playing with out of competition. When being randomly paired with someone he has no say in whether it's someone off 18 or someone off scratch.

I must be mad to think the proper thing to do in the situations he mentioned is for him to politely tell the newcomer / high handicapper what they are doing wrong (i.e. walking in the line of putt etc.)

Essentially, my opinion is when playing for leisure he can pick and choose who he plays with. When he doesn't have the luxury of choosing his partner, I think it would be better etiquette to show the person respect and use his experience to educate the person further?

Luckily 99% of golfers are perfectly ok to play with and you and your mates shouldn't worry about the few knobs!

 

[patricks148]

I'm not saying that at all. It is his prerogative to pick who he's playing with out of competition. When being randomly paired with someone he has no say in whether it's someone off 18 or someone off scratch.

I must be mad to think the proper thing to do in the situations he mentioned is for him to politely tell the newcomer / high handicapper what they are doing wrong (i.e. walking in the line of putt etc.)

Essentially, my opinion is when playing for leisure he can pick and choose who he plays with. When he doesn't have the luxury of choosing his partner, I think it would be better etiquette to show the person respect and use his experience to educate the person further?

I'm not sure he said he refused to play with anyone, only that he prefers not to play with high handicaps, TBH at his standard that could still be 4 or 5 handicap.

it works the other way too ive seen a few instances where high handicappers where unhappy playing with a low handicaps.

in a comp you should be able to play your game and not have to worry about your PP all the time, esp if you are doing your best to shoot a score

 

[UtopianAsh]

I'm not sure he said he refused to play with anyone, only that he prefers not to play with high handicaps, TBH at his standard that could still be 4 or 5 handicap.

it works the other way too ive seen a few instances where high handicappers where unhappy playing with a low handicaps.

in a comp you should be able to play your game and not have to worry about your PP all the time, esp if you are doing your best to shoot a score

That's fair enough. Would I be right in saying that your opinion is that in competitions players should only play with those around the same handicap?

 

[patricks148]

That's fair enough. Would I be right in saying that your opinion is that in competitions players should only play with those around the same handicap?

personally i don't have an issue with playing with Higher handicaps as long as they know the rules and play the same pace as me no issues, but its not an issue at my club, i think the drawn (silver trophies) comps are seeded, so the lowest go out first, we have a lot of cat 1 golfers and not that many over a 20 handicap, not the men's section anyway.

for a higher handicap wanting to improve its good to play with much lowers players, but i understand why really low guys would'nt want to all the time.

we had a situation a couple of times last year, my mate slow Dave and i filled in at the last minuet in a couple of club matches against other local clubs and and two of the oppo complained about playing against 2 cat1 players, they were both 20 somethings and were not happy and were quite miserable about it, They are only friendly games and i bit of a laugh, we only filled it because they were short as there was something else on that day, so the usual guys couldn't play.