Score in 4bbb used for handicap?

[Colin L]

Ian, your original post was admirably clear.

 

[Billysboots]

I already read it and still don't see the relevance to the current discussion. An example of a four person team event would be a number of sides of 4 players engaged in a Texas Scramble, the scores of each side being aggregated into a team total. Perhaps if you explained what you mean by pairs, it would be clearer as I've always taken pairs to be synonymous with fourball.

Pair. Team of two. In a competitive round there will, of course, be four golfers, hence the reference to fourball or 4BBB.

Four person team event. Team of four.

All nothing more than semantics. Perhaps I should have chosen my opening words more carefully rather than having one eye on my Super6, and said “pairs rather than a four person team event”. I did subsequently clarify what I was referring to but, alas, that clearly hasn’t prevented a pretty pedantic onslaught.

And I will say, the level of pedantry on this section of the forum can be absolutely breathtaking at times. To see those who clearly enjoy the rules and have a deep knowledge of them forensically pick apart each and every word of those of us who don’t possess an encyclopaedic understanding of them is a huge turn off.
The phrase like a dog with a bone springs to mind.

Sorry, folks. I’ll leave it with you.

 

[Colin L]

Pair. Team of two. In a competitive round there will, of course, be four golfers, hence the reference to fourball or 4BBB.

Four person team event. Team of four.

All nothing more than semantics. Perhaps I should have chosen my opening words more carefully rather than having one eye on my Super6, and said “pairs rather than a four person team event”. I did subsequently clarify what I was referring to but, alas, that clearly hasn’t prevented a pretty pedantic onslaught.

And I will say, the level of pedantry on this section of the forum can be absolutely breathtaking at times. To see those who clearly enjoy the rules and have a deep knowledge of them forensically pick apart each and every word of those of us who don’t possess an encyclopaedic understanding of them is a huge turn off.
The phrase like a dog with a bone springs to mind.

Sorry, folks. I’ll leave it with you.

Sorry, but you are persisting in the misunderstanding of what these terms mean and it's bit off to to denigrate a genuine effort to help you understand better and to present confusion in the discussion.

It's a shame you feel the way you do but the exact meaning of words used in the rules of any sport and in any regulated situation matters a great deal. In the Rules of Golf, the two partners in a four-ball form a side, not a team. It's not pedantry, it's not nit-picking. It's a matter of using the right terms because that's the way you maintain a common understanding and consistent application of rules, regulations, laws. That's why there are no fewer than 74 definitions of terms used in the Rules of Golf, nearly 90 in the glossary of terms used in the rules of Rugby League, over 50 in the laws of cricket, numerous in an insurance policy .... and so on it no doubt goes. Words matter.

 

[LizAig]

It should pick it up although there has been an email sent out about an issue with the system!

 

[Billysboots]

Sorry, but you are persisting in the misunderstanding of what these terms mean and it's bit off to to denigrate a genuine effort to help you understand better and to present confusion in the discussion.

It's a shame you feel the way you do but the exact meaning of words used in the rules of any sport and in any regulated situation matters a great deal. In the Rules of Golf, the two partners in a four-ball form a side, not a team. It's not pedantry, it's not nit-picking. It's a matter of using the right terms because that's the way you maintain a common understanding and consistent application of rules, regulations, laws. That's why there are no fewer than 74 definitions of terms used in the Rules of Golf, nearly 90 in the glossary of terms used in the rules of Rugby League, over 50 in the laws of cricket, numerous in an insurance policy .... and so on it no doubt goes. Words matter.

Thank you, Colin, for totally reinforcing the comments in my penultimate paragraph in post #22.

 

[Steven Rules]

Thank you, Colin, for totally reinforcing the comments in my penultimate paragraph in post #23.

At the risk of affirming my membership of the pedant club, I think you mean post #22.

I also think that precision is important in this forum. My perspective is that most people are on here to be educated about the Rules (and handicapping). Correcting incorrect information is important lest it be allowed to perpetuate. In my own case, I gravitated to this site a few years ago because of the quality of the responses and information provided.

 

[Billysboots]

At the risk of affirming my membership of the pedant club, I think you mean post #22.

You’re quite right - a deleted post has resulted in some re numbering!

 

[clubchamp98]

Anyone know the rational for this?

Idiots running WHS .
It’s the only solution to bandits.

 

[rulefan]

Idiots running WHS .
It’s the only solution to bandits.

To what extent does your club committee give feedback to EG?
How much information does it repost to members?

 

[clubchamp98]

To what extent does your club committee give feedback to EG?
How much information does it repost to members?

What’s that got to do with it.?

It was a direct quote about a pps scores affecting your handicap in 4bbb.

 

[rulefan]

What’s that got to do with it.?

It was a direct quote about a pps scores affecting your handicap in 4bbb.

It was a direct response to your statement "Idiots running WHS" .

 

[clubchamp98]

It was a direct response to your statement "Idiots running WHS" .

Yes that’s what I think of people who think it’s ok for a pps score to affect my handicap.!

 

[wjemather]

Yes that’s what I think of people who think it’s ok for a pps score to affect my handicap.!

It's a "team game". Your playing partner directly affects your score (and you theirs).
MLS is the alternative, but I can't see that gaining traction over here any time soon.

 

[clubchamp98]

It's a "team game". Your playing partner directly affects your score (and you theirs).
MLS is the alternative, but I can't see that gaining traction over here any time soon.

Golf’s not a team game when it comes to handicaps.
It’s an individual sport and my handicap is based on my scores and should not be manipulated using another players scores!

This has been thought up because the system can’t cope with bandits inflating their caps then cleaning up in 4bbb opens.
A by product WHS has made easier by the way.

As for MLS jeez

 

[wjemather]

Golf’s not a team game when it comes to handicaps.
It’s an individual sport and my handicap is based on my scores and should not be manipulated using another players scores!

This has been thought up because the system can’t cope with bandits inflating their caps then cleaning up in 4bbb opens.
A by product WHS has made easier by the way.

As for MLS jeez

I'm yet to hear any solution for 4BBB scores that doesn't involve what the playing partner scored and/or some variation of MLS, or handicap committees just sticking their finger in the air with wildly different results.

Maybe you have one?

 

[clubchamp98]

I'm yet to hear any solution for 4BBB scores that doesn't involve what the playing partner scored and/or some variation of MLS, or handicap committees just sticking their finger in the air with wildly different results.

Maybe you have one?

There isn’t one that’s why or the brilliant brains in charge would have done it donkeys years ago.

They have just made up a solution for a WHS problem that’s not fit for purpose.

If you don’t like bandits winning everything don’t give them a handicap system they can manipulate so easily. Bit late now.!
Or just don’t play 4bbb.

But imo it is fundamentally flawed to adjust my handicap based on someone else’s score.

 

[IanM]

Parts of the recent directive are really sensible, especially if aimed at the cheating scumbags who proliferate in better ball pairs and team opens.

A score in excess of a certain points score, its an immediate cut for all.

You'd see an immediate behaviour change!

 

[srixon 1]

As I posted in another thread about this last week, it has already had an impact during one of our 4BBB competitions. One of the serial 4BBB and scramble team winners lost 2.2 from his HI. Apparently he is not happy about it. I heard this yesterday from one of his regular playing partners as we played in the summer singles KO. I had to bite my tongue to stop myself from saying that 2.2 was not enough. I have just looked at England Golf and the guy only submitted 11 rounds during the whole of 2023 and most were not competition rounds. Yet during the summer he is on the course at least two or three times during the week. I know this because I see him up there with his partner in crime.

 

[Swango1980]

Just read through this thread. Without doubt, the biggest thing I learned from it was to ensure you get your terminology and definitions correct, or face the consequences

 

[nickjdavis]

Just read through this thread. Without doubt, the biggest thing I learned from it was to ensure you get your terminology and definitions correct, or face the consequences

Define "consequences".