Score in 4bbb used for handicap?

[2blue]

I'm yet to hear any solution for 4BBB scores that doesn't involve what the playing partner scored and/or some variation of MLS, or handicap committees just sticking their finger in the air with wildly different results.

Maybe you have one?

A solution to this is what golfers have been crying out for years for & the old system didn't deal with it but WHS seems to already be doing so if you read Steve's

srixon 1 post​

 

[Alan Clifford]

It's a "team game". Your playing partner directly affects your score (and you theirs).
MLS is the alternative, but I can't see that gaining traction over here any time soon.

Most likely score is interesting when you play using it. After one guy was in the hole and the other guy was a metre or so from the hole and couldn't do better, the comment from the first guy was along the lines of, "if you put that and miss, you're padding your handicap".

 

[2blue]

Most likely score is interesting when you play using it. After one guy was in the hole and the other guy was a metre or so from the hole and couldn't do better, the comment from the first guy was along the lines of, "if you put that and miss, you're padding your handicap".

Do you even putt ?..... thought you just picked & applied MLS

 

[Imurg]

Ah...the 5 foot Gimmee.......

 

[wjemather]

Ah...the 5 foot Gimmee.......

Equating MLS to gimmes isn't helpful.
It's "Most Likely Score" not "Virtually Certain Score".

 

[rulefan]

Equating MLS to gimmes isn't helpful.
It's "Most Likely Score" not "Virtually Certain Score".

Or "I wish" score

 

[Alan Clifford]

Do you even putt ?..... thought you just picked & applied MLS

So he didn't ... he did & did.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Or "I wish" score

I'm gradually seeing the sense of most likely score in better ball. When the second player cannot better his partner's score, it prevents the deliberate miss to pad his total for handicap. This is a totally different animal to a "gimme".

 

[D-S]

A local club ran a big 4BB last week, 2 players in separate pairings (who scored 42points plus) had their scores uploaded to WHS and their HIs were reduced as a result. Both players putted out on each hole or picked up when they couldn’t score a point. Both individual scores were less than 36 points (I believe 33 and 32) but due to their partners coming in on the holes where they scored poorly their upscaled scores were above the 36 point threshold. The handicap sec struggled to explain to them that poor scoring on their behalf resulted in a cut.

 

[rosecott]

A local club ran a big 4BB last week, 2 players in separate pairings (who scored 42points plus) had their scores uploaded to WHS and their HIs were reduced as a result. Both players putted out on each hole or picked up when they couldn’t score a point. Both individual scores were less than 36 points (I believe 33 and 32) but due to their partners coming in on the holes where they scored poorly their upscaled scores were above the 36 point threshold. The handicap sec struggled to explain to them that poor scoring on their behalf resulted in a cut.

I am struggling to understand why the handicap sec was struggling to explain. The principles involved have been known for some time and are not particularly hard to understand. I would expect an experienced pair entering a big 4BBB would be aware of those principles

 

[D-S]

I am struggling to understand why the handicap sec was struggling to explain. The principles involved have been known for some time and are not particularly hard to understand. I would expect an experienced pair entering a big 4BBB would be aware of those principles

It was difficult to explain (or for them to accept) to players why a poor score by them could directly result in a handicap cut. This has never happened in any system they have experienced before.
In fact the purpose of this new April change was to catch out those who played significantly better than their handicap in Pairs events than they do in a singles comp and to capture this on their record. This was not the case in these instances, it’s just that they happened to have a good partner on the right holes.

 

[wjemather]

4BBB is not an individual game. As such, individual totals are of no relevance.
Players continuing to play and hole out when their score is meaningless need a strong reminder to pick up and move on.

 

[D-S]

The purpose of the change was to catch individuals who 'reserve' their best play for team formats, players whose performance in a pairs format means that their current HI does not reflect their current ability. These instances have 'caught' the wrong players.

 

[LizAig]

Resurrecting this thread in the hopes it will answer a question! Does the player have to score 36+pts before the CH-PH part of the calculation is applied or is that part of the calculation applied after? A friend, who plays at another club, scored 17 individual pts (and didn’t score on any other holes). 17 pts playing off 85% is a good score for 9 holes for 54 handicapper but not for 18 holes!!. She worked out her end score using her partners score and that bought her to 30pts.

Looking at the Infograph i thought the CH-PH calculation happened only if the person scored 36+ with their score and the alteration for their partner’s score but am I wrong? Is the CH-PH calculation part of the initial calculation to see if they scored 36pts +? I can’t find the actual order of calculation written anywhere that makes it clear.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

4BBB is not an individual game. As such, individual totals are of no relevance.
Players continuing to play and hole out when their score is meaningless need a strong reminder to pick up and move on.

And this for me is why the score should be applied to both players scoring record.

 

[Billysboots]

Resurrecting this thread in the hopes it will answer a question! Does the player have to score 36+pts before the CH-PH part of the calculation is applied or is that part of the calculation applied after? A friend, who plays at another club, scored 17 individual pts (and didn’t score on any other holes). 17 pts playing off 85% is a good score for 9 holes for 54 handicapper but not for 18 holes!!. She worked out her end score using her partners score and that bought her to 30pts.

Looking at the Infograph i thought the CH-PH calculation happened only if the person scored 36+ with their score and the alteration for their partner’s score but am I wrong? Is the CH-PH calculation part of the initial calculation to see if they scored 36pts +? I can’t find the actual order of calculation written anywhere that makes it clear.

They need 36 points on their individual card after the calculation has been applied using their partner’s scores on the remaining holes.

 

[Billysboots]

And this for me is why the score should be applied to both players scoring record.

I don’t disagree. My HI was adjusted having scored on 13 holes in a combined 43 points a week or so ago. On three of the holes where my score was not recorded and I received 1.5 points per hole, I was first in the hole for 2 points but my partner kept me off the card.

Whilst I agree something needed to be done to address those who always play well in 4BBB comps, the method employed is not compatible with maintaining pace of play once someone realises they may be in line for a cut and start to putt out on every hole.

 

[2blue]

I don’t disagree. My HI was adjusted having scored on 13 holes in a combined 43 points a week or so ago. On three of the holes where my score was not recorded and I received 1.5 points per hole, I was first in the hole for 2 points but my partner kept me off the card.

Whilst I agree something needed to be done to address those who always play well in 4BBB comps, the method employed is not compatible with maintaining pace of play once someone realises they may be in line for a cut and start to putt out on every hole.

How does that help them?

 

[rulefan]

How does that help them?

Presumably they had already got two points and then their partner holed out for 3 points.

 

[2blue]

I don’t disagree. My HI was adjusted having scored on 13 holes in a combined 43 points a week or so ago. On three of the holes where my score was not recorded and I received 1.5 points per hole, I was first in the hole for 2 points but my partner kept me off the card.

Whilst I agree something needed to be done to address those who always play well in 4BBB comps, the method employed is not compatible with maintaining pace of play once someone realises they may be in line for a cut and start to putt out on every hole.

How does that help them?

Presumably they had already got two points and then their partner holed out for 3 points.

I agree that's the only time your partner holes out. This doesn't sound like what he meant.