Handicap

[Parsaregood]

A few, not lots though

However, Just because someone has a high handicap doesnt mean they dont know the rules.

Ive also managed to not lose a ball for 5 rounds, one of ours this week lost 4 on Saturday, he plays off 3 and had a mare. We didnt complain about having to look for his ball so often!

I generally see higher guys breaking rules like building stances next to bushes etc taking incorrect relief or dodgy drops. I don't think they are breaking the rules just more so they don't really know them. As for looking for balls if someone is hitting them in the junk all the time I'd hope they would eventually just keep going for the sake of keeping pace of play. It goes to a nett double if you nr at a hole, there is no need to look for the 3rd provisional for 3 minutes.

 

[HamiltonGuy]

I play with a boy who drives further than anyone I’ve played with. Any iron In his hand it’s curtains he falls to bits. Length is irrelevant at the end of the day you’re unlikely to be driving par 4/5s most of the time everyone has the chance generally to be on the green in two

 

[williamalex1]

I generally see higher guys breaking rules like building stances next to bushes etc taking incorrect relief or dodgy drops. I don't think they are breaking the rules just more so they don't really know them. As for looking for balls if someone is hitting them in the junk all the time I'd hope they would eventually just keep going for the sake of keeping pace of play. It goes to a nett double if you nr at a hole, there is no need to look for the 3rd provisional for 3 minutes.

We had a plus 2 h/c club champion who was caught cheating 3 times, now barred from the club for life.
He was a good guy normally, i worked with him and played along with him almost every other week, but he just had to win by any means.

 

[Parsaregood]

We had a plus 2 h/c club champion who was caught cheating 3 times, now barred from the club for life.
He was a good guy, i worked with him and played along with him almost every other week, but he just had to win by any means.

I put a letter in against a guy off scratch, he got banned from holding a hcap for a year. Nice guy but he was a cheat. Joined somewhere else and 2 years later caught again, there are cheats but there are guys who are just pretty lax or not really bothered about it that much and don't take it too seriously which tends to be your higher guys most of the time

 

[User20204]

Length is irrelevant at the end of the day you’re unlikely to be driving par 4/5s most of the time everyone has the chance generally to be on the green in two

Factually incorrect I'm afraid to say, the nearer you are to the hole the easier it is.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I wish you well in your golf, but would you really enjoy playing with a scratch player or plus handicap player who's hitting it most likely a long way past you, hitting most fairways and at least 2 thirds of greens.
It would probably make you feel a little uncomfortable and nervous. It's not good in competition for either type of player in my opinion

Play with ex pro and a couple of + handicappers regularly. Nicest guys ever to play with and they make no distinction about their ability and others. In fact I've had a 75+ year old who doesn't hit it far, shuffles along and plays off 18+ and never have they ever mentioned not playing with him as he's too short, too slow or worry its dragging their own game down. As I said, whether its a preference or not I find the whole attitude very sad, especially the fact that even in a club medal, with players paying their money same as you, that you'd rather ignore them as they aren't as good as you

 

[Parsaregood]

Play with ex pro and a couple of + handicappers regularly. Nicest guys ever to play with and they make no distinction about their ability and others. In fact I've had a 75+ year old who doesn't hit it far, shuffles along and plays off 18+ and never have they ever mentioned not playing with him as he's too short, too slow or worry its dragging their own game down. As I said, whether its a preference or not I find the whole attitude very sad, especially the fact that even in a club medal, with players paying their money same as you, that you'd rather ignore them as they aren't as good as you

I don't ignore them, if I'm playing a medal I play with guys I know in a sweep. I tend to play 36 holers and other stuff like that more. I still play with guys off 15 16 17 18 now and then , I just would be a bit sceptical of playing with somebody off 36 or 54 or some other ridiculous number

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I just would be a bit sceptical of playing with somebody off 36 or 54 or some other ridiculous number

All our comps are drawn and not one Cat 1 player has ever moaned about being drawn with anyone else including 28+ handicappers. I just find your comments very sad that you choose playing partners for club competitions based on golfing ability and strict adherence to etiquette, rather than the quality of their company. For 99% of those entering any club competition its fun. Yes, if they play well they might get a cut and pick up a few quid as might you, but after a beer (subject to strict dress codes of course) we all go home and resume normal life. I just fail to see why you're so vociferous that you wouldn't play with high handicappers, preference or not. Maybe, just maybe you could even educate them on the etiquette and rules if its that much of an issue

 

[Slab]

Play with ex pro and a couple of + handicappers regularly. Nicest guys ever to play with and they make no distinction about their ability and others. In fact I've had a 75+ year old who doesn't hit it far, shuffles along and plays off 18+ and never have they ever mentioned not playing with him as he's too short, too slow or worry its dragging their own game down. As I said, whether its a preference or not I find the whole attitude very sad, especially the fact that even in a club medal, with players paying their money same as you, that you'd rather ignore them as they aren't as good as you

Not that handicap is a preference for me, but do you not have members at your club that have preferences on who they play with on non drawn rounds?
I know I've seen players pick their PP's based on lots of things including sense of humour, lift buddies, friendships, age, betting circles, history, shared opinions, gender etc etc and similar ability, its hardly breaking news to find that some folk believe they'll enjoy their round a bit more if they play with someone they have something in common with (whether that's ability or anything else)

Sure they might be missing out on making new friends but maybe that's not what golf means to them either

Any player that has ever selected their group partners based on any criteria that would exclude others is just as guilty/not guilty as Parsaregood

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Not that handicap is a preference for me, but do you not have members at your club that have preferences on who they play with on non drawn rounds?
I know I've seen players pick their PP's based on lots of things including sense of humour, lift buddies, friendships, age, betting circles, history, shared opinions, gender etc etc and similar ability, its hardly breaking news to find that some folk believe they'll enjoy their round a bit more if they play with someone they have something in common with (whether that's ability or anything else)

Sure they might be missing out on making new friends but maybe that's not what golf means to them either

Any player that has ever selected their group partners based on any criteria that would exclude others is just as guilty/not guilty as Parsaregood

I can only speak from personal experience but if we take weekends as an example, we have a Satruday and Sunday roll up which has players from handicaps of 1-28. Balls go in the bag and are drawn. No-one has any preference. There are a couple of other roll ups later on a Saturday and I think they are exactly the same. I am sure there are some members who play in their own little group each week because everyone is a similar ability but I don't see it

What I would add as a caveat, is we run a successful buddy scheme (and the organisers up for the volunteer prize at the EGU awards https://www.englandgolf.org/remarkable-finalists-shortlisted-for-england-golf-awards/) where they actively ensure ALL new members are integrated into the club and specifically not left out because they don't have a handicap, have only just started or feel self-conscious about playing with better players. Most are pointed towards a roll up to ensure they get regular games and all are welcomed with open arms and helped to feel part of the club. I played with one of the organisers in the last comp and he said not one new member since the buddy scheme started left because of issues with snobbish members, dress codes or getting a game so we must be doing something right

 

[oltimer]

I wasn't aware this topic was a criticism of high handicappers ? I personally would have no problems playing with the OP nor any other high handicapper, I just wouldn't play them in a match.

Interesting - Sunday Comps at our club have players selecting preferred tee times resulting in groups of just low hcaps or higher hcaps, we have been trying to get groups to contain a mix of hcap levels mostly so that members get to know each other better by not playing in the same groups each comp, a spot survey showed that it was the high hcaps that did NOT want to play with those who out drove them every shot resulting in them mis-hitting trying to keep up, whereas every low hcap asked was more than happy to play with anyone whatever their hcap was

 

[Parsaregood]

I can only speak from personal experience but if we take weekends as an example, we have a Satruday and Sunday roll up which has players from handicaps of 1-28. Balls go in the bag and are drawn. No-one has any preference. There are a couple of other roll ups later on a Saturday and I think they are exactly the same. I am sure there are some members who play in their own little group each week because everyone is a similar ability but I don't see it

What I would add as a caveat, is we run a successful buddy scheme (and the organisers up for the volunteer prize at the EGU awards https://www.englandgolf.org/remarkable-finalists-shortlisted-for-england-golf-awards/) where they actively ensure ALL new members are integrated into the club and specifically not left out because they don't have a handicap, have only just started or feel self-conscious about playing with better players. Most are pointed towards a roll up to ensure they get regular games and all are welcomed with open arms and helped to feel part of the club. I played with one of the organisers in the last comp and he said not one new member since the buddy scheme started left because of issues with snobbish members, dress codes or getting a game so we must be doing something right

Snobbish members who are working class and drive vans everyday, classic

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Snobbish members who are working class and drive vans everyday, classic

Just because you drive a van and are working class doesn't prevent you from holding snobbish or elitist values. It feels like trolling on a grand scale as you simply wish to argue each point raised now and have failed to recognise any of the counter-views produced by myself and others. I've made my views well known and my thoughts on your point of view in my mind still shows why golf has problems but I'll respect you having them and withdraw from this for the moment

 

[Slab]

I can only speak from personal experience but if we take weekends as an example, we have a Satruday and Sunday roll up which has players from handicaps of 1-28. Balls go in the bag and are drawn. No-one has any preference. There are a couple of other roll ups later on a Saturday and I think they are exactly the same. I am sure there are some members who play in their own little group each week because everyone is a similar ability but I don't see it

What I would add as a caveat, is we run a successful buddy scheme (and the organisers up for the volunteer prize at the EGU awards https://www.englandgolf.org/remarkable-finalists-shortlisted-for-england-golf-awards/) where they actively ensure ALL new members are integrated into the club and specifically not left out because they don't have a handicap, have only just started or feel self-conscious about playing with better players. Most are pointed towards a roll up to ensure they get regular games and all are welcomed with open arms and helped to feel part of the club. I played with one of the organisers in the last comp and he said not one new member since the buddy scheme started left because of issues with snobbish members, dress codes or getting a game so we must be doing something right

All very commendable but doesn't mean there's no place in golf for players who like to play with someone they share a commonality with (personally I like both drawn and non drawn golf)
This isn't about excluding new members from the entire clubs membership, its simply looking at whether a player can have a preference on who they play with, you say no. I say maybe that in itself is a non-inclusive approach

While I'll never share in all of Parsaregood opinions re handicap, you might think about whether you're playing the poster on this occasion

 

[HomerJSimpson]

All very commendable but doesn't mean there's no place in golf for players who like to play with someone they share a commonality with (personally I like both drawn and non drawn golf)
This isn't about excluding new members from the entire clubs membership, its simply looking at whether a player can have a preference on who they play with, you say no. I say maybe that in itself is a non-inclusive approach

While I'll never share in all of Parsaregood opinions re handicap, you might think about whether you're playing the poster on this occasion

What does that even mean "playing the poster". It's a phrase that seems prevalent on here these days. I'm merely responding to the points raised. I'd have exactly the same issues had it been you or anyone else writing them.

As for the initial point, I've never said there isn't a place for those people happy to play with mates on a regular basis, whether that is based on handicaps, football teams supported, work colleagues or whatever and I'm for golf being as inclusive as it can be. My club would never exclude anyone who wanted to join and then go off and do their own thing each week. The buddy scheme is just there as a tool to ensure everyone has the opportunity to integrate. It's optional whether you take it up or not.

As regards handicaps in comps, as our comps are randomly drawn so a 1 handicapper can play with a 28+, the answer is simple and don't enter. In the summer there is an opportunity to roll up for a few events and so you can choose to play with your golfing mates or with others off a low handicap if you want to, but its not open in the winter and in the summer there is usually a large number rolling up straight after the last comp time to get a social game so pace of play can then be an issue. I'm happy to play with anyone, anytime, whether its a comp or not and suggest many on here are the same. I just find the poster's point of view about choosing not to play with high handicappers because of ability and etiquette and rules knowledge at odds with my own point of view. That's not playing anyone!

And yes I do see the irony in responding when I said I'd finished here but thought your post was worth a reply to explain my thoughts and how my club does things.

 

[oltimer]

A Handicap reflects the players ball striking ability it does not mean he knows the rules any better than others.

 

[Slab]

What does that even mean "playing the poster". It's a phrase that seems prevalent on here these days. I'm merely responding to the points raised. I'd have exactly the same issues had it been you or anyone else writing them.

As for the initial point, I've never said there isn't a place for those people happy to play with mates on a regular basis, whether that is based on handicaps, football teams supported, work colleagues or whatever and I'm for golf being as inclusive as it can be. My club would never exclude anyone who wanted to join and then go off and do their own thing each week. The buddy scheme is just there as a tool to ensure everyone has the opportunity to integrate. It's optional whether you take it up or not.

As regards handicaps in comps, as our comps are randomly drawn so a 1 handicapper can play with a 28+, the answer is simple and don't enter. In the summer there is an opportunity to roll up for a few events and so you can choose to play with your golfing mates or with others off a low handicap if you want to, but its not open in the winter and in the summer there is usually a large number rolling up straight after the last comp time to get a social game so pace of play can then be an issue. I'm happy to play with anyone, anytime, whether its a comp or not and suggest many on here are the same. I just find the poster's point of view about choosing not to play with high handicappers because of ability and etiquette and rules knowledge at odds with my own point of view. That's not playing anyone!

And yes I do see the irony in responding when I said I'd finished here but thought your post was worth a reply to explain my thoughts and how my club does things.

Ok cool, so it is ok for Parsaregood to have a preference to play with players of similar ability (whether that's what you and I would have as a preference doesn't negate him having it as a preference) it just didn't seem like you were ok with that, but that's cleared up

(re playing the poster, yeah its my first time using the phrase but like you I saw it was getting pretty popular so I thought I'd slip one in)

 

[Reemul]

Ok cool, so it is ok for Parsaregood to have a preference to play with players of similar ability (whether that's what you and I would have as a preference doesn't negate him having it as a preference) it just didn't seem like you were ok with that, but that's cleared up

(re playing the poster, yeah its my first time using the phrase but like you I saw it was getting pretty popular so I thought I'd slip one in)

That's a tricky one isn't it. All preferences are not equal and some won't be viewed as such. Doesn't mean they are not held, just not seen as good ones to hold

 

[Slab]

That's a tricky one isn't it. All preferences are not equal and some won't be viewed as such. Doesn't mean they are not held, just not seen as good ones to hold

Yeah good point. Maybe it's not so much the preference but the reason behind having something as a preference
Almost any preference could be rational if the reasoning is sound but could also be based on reasoning that many of us would find unacceptable

 

[UtopianAsh]

There's a few reasons I don't enjoy generally playing with people over say 17 handicap.
I generally hit the ball an average of 290 off the tee, I can hit it up to 100 yards past them. I have to troop about looking for balls and I have to wait what seems like a long time to hit my shot. Find it hard to get into any sort of rythym. It's not an enjoyable experience for me, I also find they have poor etiquette on tees and on and around the greens, they don't realise shadows can be off putting, they don't Mark balls, walk over lines, stand in line of sight.

Hi mate. I'm fairly new to the forum (have been a lurker for a while but not posted yet) but felt inclined to comment on your post. I'm 24 years old and have just started playing golf about June last year, as I felt it would be a new sport that a) fills the void now I've stopped boxing after 13 years and b) goes well with my job (I'm a Financial Adviser) and c) take after my Dad who is a low handicapper who has enjoyed some solid successes over the past 15 years. I've just joined my first club and I am still having regular lessons with an ex-pro who was fantastic back in the day.

Unfortunately, it is attitudes displayed in your post that puts off so many young people from getting into the sport. I am fairly thick skinned so I don't mind the sweeping generalisation as I know it to be a form of snobbery, but so many of my friends straight up refuse to join a club (despite wanting to get into the sport) because they don't wish to be belittled or taken the mickey out of because they aren't a "good" player yet. These kind of sweeping statements are why golf memberships are dropping and new people don't want to get involved - the sport is portrayed as elitist, exclusive and is consequentially quite daunting for someone on the outside looking in.

The handicap system is all about making the sport inclusive, so a novice can play with an expert on a level playing field. There's no hope if these "experts" refuse to acknowledge this.