rulie
Head Pro
Competition committee is responsible - Rule 23.3b(2). "The Committee is responsible for deciding which score counts for the side on each hole, including applying any handicaps in a handicap competition."
Score in 4bbb used for handicap?
- Thread starter IanM
- Start date
wjemather
Well-known member
As per my comment in #74, this isn't only a RoG/competition issue. The RoH and associated guidance also have to be considered.
rulie
Head Pro
Right, "considered", but they aren't part of the Rules of golf.
wjemather
Well-known member
The original question was a handicapping one, not a Rules of Golf one.
Even if it weren't, the answer to many questions are rarely as simple as just referring to the RoG. Where there are handicapping considerations, the RoH must be taken into account.
rulie
Head Pro
Understood, but the discussion moved into scorecards and responsibilities, which are parts of the Rules of the game of golf.
rosecott
Money List Winner
We had our first 4BB stableford yesterday. Competitors were not instructed to enter only the best score to count on scorecards so both scores were generally recorded where the player putted out - and doing this did not seem to affect the pace of play for the competition.
There were 5 scores of 42 points or better and our ISV (Handicapmaster) duly forwarded these scores to WHS. 7 of the 10 players in those 5 pairs had handicap reductions as a result.
Are the new 4BB handicapping rules working as expected at your club?
There were 5 scores of 42 points or better and our ISV (Handicapmaster) duly forwarded these scores to WHS. 7 of the 10 players in those 5 pairs had handicap reductions as a result.
Are the new 4BB handicapping rules working as expected at your club?
They are, but nowhere near as efficiently as you describe, sadly.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Looks like some clubs are still doing silly things innocently.
Played in a 3 day event run by 3 different clubs. 4 ball better ball (pairs better ball).
Just noticed on Day 2, everyone's score appears on MyEG. But, if they didn't count for team score, were just given a blob.
Therefore, in reality I scored an 84, they've given me an 87. My partner scored an 88, but they have given him 107.
A group of 10 of us went altogether. One scored a 74, they gave him an 80. A 2 handicapper was given a 98, because he was given blobs for last 12 holes as they just used the scores of his 1 handicap partner, who just played steady on those holes and did as well or better than 2 handicapper
Played in a 3 day event run by 3 different clubs. 4 ball better ball (pairs better ball).
Just noticed on Day 2, everyone's score appears on MyEG. But, if they didn't count for team score, were just given a blob.
Therefore, in reality I scored an 84, they've given me an 87. My partner scored an 88, but they have given him 107.
A group of 10 of us went altogether. One scored a 74, they gave him an 80. A 2 handicapper was given a 98, because he was given blobs for last 12 holes as they just used the scores of his 1 handicap partner, who just played steady on those holes and did as well or better than 2 handicapper
D-S
Well-known member
Do you mean that on day 2 all scores were entered somehow manually as some sort of a GP score?
4BB scores that do not need the criteria to make them acceptable for handicaps cannot be entered on a player’s record as this will corrupt their index.
The club needs to be to told to delete all non acceptable scores quickly.
wjemather
Well-known member
There are two issues here:
1. Looking at the competition results, only two players' scores met the criteria for having a score differential generated. Either Golf Genius still doesn't function correctly for 4BBB competition submissions for WHS (even though we've previously been assured that it does now work), or HostClub2 setup individual competitions with a team overlay for the 4BBB results and ended up sending a load of rubbish to WHS. Either way, HostClub2 should be contacted to correct the problem asap by removing all these scores.
2. You, and others in your group, have pre-registered and submitted individual General Play scores from these 4BBB competition rounds; however, 4BBB is not an authorized format of play so these scores are not acceptable. Please contact your handicap committee to explain and have them removed.
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Swango1980
Well-known member
You are like James Bond. How did you know who we were / courses we were playing
. I didn't want to name the club publicly.On day 1, we were told to enter scores into MyEG if we wished, so several did.
We will contact them tomorrow about the issue. Was also going to contact our club handicap secretary, although not all of us are from same club. Although, can Richmond just delete the scores themselves?
wjemather
Well-known member
Will send a pm when I have a moment (give me a nudge if you haven't heard from me by the weekend). I've edited my post to anonymise HostClub2; if you want to keep their identity private, you'll need to do the same.You are like James Bond. How did you know who we were / courses we were playing
On day 1, we were told to enter scores into MyEG if we wished, so several did.
We will contact them tomorrow about the issue. Was also going to contact our club handicap secretary, although not all of us are from same club. Although, can HostClub2 just delete the scores themselves?
It's unfortunate that someone was giving out faulty advice. It's probably worth raising with that club to ensure they know in future.
Handicap committees (and those with WHS club-level admin access) can delete any scores submitted by their members on any course, or from visitors on their course only.
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El Diablo
Assistant Pro
Played in two away 4BBB events this year and though exceeding the 42 points threshold (48 and 46 with different partners) neither of them have returned WHS scores though we had more than enough scores entered. My partner in the most recent event played another and his team got 42 points and a cut was duly returned via WHS.
Had been looking forwards to seeing how the dark art of these reductions worked having read the theory and been disappointed that the competitions were set up incorrectly at the away clubs and nothing has come across to WHS.
Makes a bit of a mockery of the handicap system if this continues to happen.
Suppose I should be pleased to have dodged a handicap cut but still aiming for my first ever single figure handicap and having got to 9.5 this year I know these would have tipped me over.
Had been looking forwards to seeing how the dark art of these reductions worked having read the theory and been disappointed that the competitions were set up incorrectly at the away clubs and nothing has come across to WHS.
Makes a bit of a mockery of the handicap system if this continues to happen.
Suppose I should be pleased to have dodged a handicap cut but still aiming for my first ever single figure handicap and having got to 9.5 this year I know these would have tipped me over.
doublebogey7
Head Pro
Have you asked the club why it was not set up correctly?
Swango1980
Well-known member
In the 4BBB yesterday, a couple of mates shot 45 points. Just checked MyEG and no score appears on either of their record (one told me they both scored on 9 holes each).
Not sure what the process is, I think the scores are entered using Club V1. Or at least, that was the case for first course, and last course looks to use howdidido / Club V1
Swango1980
Well-known member
Update to this.
Looks like the club have noticed the error, and rectifying this today.
NearHull
Well-known member
Report the course to the County with details. I did this last month, the organising competition committee was either, ignorant of the handicap rules, made an error in set up, or blatantly decided to flout the rules.
The County dealt with it but , quite correctly, did not provide feedback to me, so I don’t know what the reason was , though I think I can make a good guess.
The County dealt with it but , quite correctly, did not provide feedback to me, so I don’t know what the reason was , though I think I can make a good guess.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I'm not sure how the system deals with it. If set up on the ISV like any other comp, I'd have thought it would naturally do what it needs to do. Unless specifically set up to be non acceptable. Not sure why a Committee would actively do that. Unless this was default, and the Committee had to actively set it to be acceptable and weren't aware or forgot?
I'm sure my mate will contact them to ask, as they are both keen to get cut. He also put every score on a spreadsheet, so would be interesting to compare his actual score to the score the system would give him
Swango1980
Well-known member
Strange one here.
In the final 4BBB comp we played in last Wednesday (played in 3 during a festival), my mates had 45 points. Their Indexes were 18.5 and 18.2.
The score has now appeared on both their records. Asterisks on all hole scores, but both given a gross 73 (Par 72, CR 72.3), for a Score Diff of -2.3.
They are now off Indexes of 13.4 and 13.5, basically getting chopped 5 shots.
Any ideas? That can't be right, it is miles lower than they have ever been before.
In the final 4BBB comp we played in last Wednesday (played in 3 during a festival), my mates had 45 points. Their Indexes were 18.5 and 18.2.
The score has now appeared on both their records. Asterisks on all hole scores, but both given a gross 73 (Par 72, CR 72.3), for a Score Diff of -2.3.
They are now off Indexes of 13.4 and 13.5, basically getting chopped 5 shots.
Any ideas? That can't be right, it is miles lower than they have ever been before.
wjemather
Well-known member
The scores have been entered manually on WHS by HostClub3 instead of letting ClubV1 do the work.
For 4BBB, the system requires the entry of the Stableford points scored on each hole; unfortunately HostClub3 seem to have entered gross hole scores instead giving your mates a total of 82 points and ridiculous score differentials.
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