Handicap manipulation - how to address

[jim8flog]

I dont think that is the case. Yes the barrier to entry to cheating is now lower, and there is some more of it, and it requires more work and cleaning up by committees, but I dont think it is dramatically spoiling the handicap world.
Some percieved cheating is probably coming from the push for GP scores. Those putting in GP score will naturally, even without any deliberate or premeditated cheating scheme, have higher handicaps than those putting in competition cards for their handicaps. Giving them an advantage when they do play in a competition against pur comp Index players. Easily misinterpreted as cheating. Comp and GP cards is trying to compare apples and oranges. In the US, they have the counterbalancing effect of Mulligans, gimmees, and not counting the odd lost ball. But that culture is still frowned on here, coming from our background of puritan competition scores determining your handicap. EG is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole on this. Its why it is failing.

I cannot agree with this general view where I play.

The vast majority of GP scores come from playing in swindles (not organised by the club) with a kitty and players will be playing in exactly the same way as the do in a club comp.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

…
In the past, the cheating & manipulation would have been quickly called out & stopped.
But, in todays woke atmosphere that just isn't going to happen, plus I do have some sympathy for the handicap & competition secretary's, as proving the cheating & effective action is very difficult.
I've even witnessed threats of legal action against clubs who have singled out an individual for wrong doing.

I personally have just accepted that the game as far as amateur competition is concerned has gone to rat *** & there is no getting it back.
I now just play to be the best I can & have a chuckle at the outrageous scores coming in at the end of play.

What woke atmosphere and what has whatever it is got to do with self regulation by players of other players playing habits and misdemeanours.

Now my club may be an outlier but, in my experience, players scoring and the rules when they have a ‘card in hand’ is rigorously enforced.

 

[Neilds]

I play in a works society and it was decided at our AGM (needed as we get funding from Civil Service) that we would put in cards for society days. There is a competition on the day but the cards are entered as GP cards - question is, am I expected to cheat or not?

 

[Thintowin]

What woke atmosphere and what has whatever it is got to do with self regulation by players of other players playing habits and misdemeanours.

He was referring to the reluctance of challenging it. Self regulation wasn't the point. Would be nice if everyone did that but anyone who's been round the block a few times knows that's a pipe dream.

 

[hambugerpete]

I hate to break it to you , but people cheat

 

[Thintowin]

I hate to break it to you , but people cheat

Indeed they do but the recent golf rules, both handicap and other, changes have been led by those who don't want to acknowledge that.

Apart from WHS the most obvious is the one where you don't have to call over your opponent to identify your ball in the rough. As long as you mark it first then you're good to go. I mean, is it me?

 

[clubchamp98]

Indeed, and me. However a small piece of me still thinks it can be fixed.

It can be but imho it won’t.
The guys at the top will never admit they were wrong.
In my humble opinion of course .

 

[clubchamp98]

We get around 40 general play scores a day where I play just imagine the man hours and cost (it is an office function) involved to check that lot.
It was discussed with county and they advised to check a random sample only of about 1 in 10.

Yet we were assured the Comittees workload would not go up.!

 

[clubchamp98]

I play in a works society and it was decided at our AGM (needed as we get funding from Civil Service) that we would put in cards for society days. There is a competition on the day but the cards are entered as GP cards - question is, am I expected to cheat or not?

Your getting tax payers money and want to know if you can cheat!

 

[Thintowin]

It can be but imho it won’t.
The guys at the top will never admit they were wrong.
In my humble opinion of course .

Those guys change. Slumbers replacement may have a bit of wit. It's not that difficult to fix it either. Just a better algorithm to calculate HI. The current one is so naive it's ridiculous.

 

[clubchamp98]

Those guys change. Slumbers replacement may have a bit of wit. It's not that difficult to fix it either. Just a better algorithm to calculate HI. The current one is so naive it's ridiculous.

Unless there like the FA and put the right man in the job not the best person.

 

[rulefan]

Indeed they do but the recent golf rules, both handicap and other, changes have been led by those who don't want to acknowledge that.

Apart from WHS the most obvious is the one where you don't have to call over your opponent to identify your ball in the rough. As long as you mark it first then you're good to go. I mean, is it me?

You have identified a Rule of Golf. How about a Rule of Handicapping?

 

[Thintowin]

Unless there like the FA and put the right man in the job not the best person.

Slumbers referred to the job as a financial role. Says it all. I'm still hopeful though.

 

[Neilds]

Your getting tax payers money and want to know if you can cheat!

Technically the money is from people who subscribe to the CS sports council so not taxpayers
But post was tongue in cheek about those people who think every GP card is crooked

 

[Swango1980]

I dont think that is the case. Yes the barrier to entry to cheating is now lower, and there is some more of it, and it requires more work and cleaning up by committees, but I dont think it is dramatically spoiling the handicap world.
Some percieved cheating is probably coming from the push for GP scores. Those putting in GP score will naturally, even without any deliberate or premeditated cheating scheme, have higher handicaps than those putting in competition cards for their handicaps. Giving them an advantage when they do play in a competition against pur comp Index players. Easily misinterpreted as cheating. Comp and GP cards is trying to compare apples and oranges. In the US, they have the counterbalancing effect of Mulligans, gimmees, and not counting the odd lost ball. But that culture is still frowned on here, coming from our background of puritan competition scores determining your handicap. EG is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole on this. Its why it is failing.

Worth me pointing out that, in my case at least, your claim is not true.

I put in a lot of GP scores, and I worked out what my handicap differences if I didn't hand in GP scores. My handicap would have been a bit higher if I only entered comp scores. Often, my very best round is a GP score.

 

[Thintowin]

You have identified a Rule of Golf. How about a Rule of Handicapping?

I thought I'd done that by pointing out the frailties of the HI calculation?

See message #772

 

[hambugerpete]

Indeed they do but the recent golf rules, both handicap and other, changes have been led by those who don't want to acknowledge that.

Apart from WHS the most obvious is the one where you don't have to call over your opponent to identify your ball in the rough. As long as you mark it first then you're good to go. I mean, is it me?

Indeed they do but the recent golf rules, both handicap and other, changes have been led by those who don't want to acknowledge that.

Apart from WHS the most obvious is the one where you don't have to call over your opponent to identify your ball in the rough. As long as you mark it first then you're good to go. I mean, is it me?

I don't mind the new system, I put pretty much all my scores in if I can, much fairer reflection of my golf.

Not sure about the rule changes making cheating more likely, it's a game of trust after all.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

He was referring to the reluctance of challenging it. Self regulation wasn't the point. Would be nice if everyone did that but anyone who's been round the block a few times knows that's a pipe dream.

...and woke (whatever that is) has what to do with that?

And in my experience you are dead wrong about it being a pipe dream...I have been round the block many times and I have no issues whatsoever calling someone out. And many, if not most, of my golfing buddies are like-minded.

 

[Thintowin]

I don't mind the new system, I put pretty much all my scores in if I can, much fairer reflection of my golf.

Not sure about the rule changes making cheating more likely, it's a game of trust after all.

We all assume/hope that until we experience the reality. The rule makers would like us all to behave impeccably but, I'm sorry to have to tell you, there are golfers who don't. The rules used to make it more difficult to get away with things but no longer.

Good luck.

 

[Thintowin]

...and woke (whatever that is) has what to do with that?

And in my experience you are dead wrong about it being a pipe dream...I have been round the block many times and I have no issues whatsoever calling someone out. And many, if not most, of my golfing buddies are like-minded.

You have a knack of misrepresenting the words.

Would be nice if everyone self regulated, as in called themselves out.