Handicap manipulation - how to address
- Thread starter Teebs
- Start date
D-S
Well-known member
Yup - seen it in action.Another 'cheating' opportunity?
Thintowin
Active member
Cheating, or rather thinking about what you might like your bad score to be, has been normalised by WHS.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Well putting a score on your card you don’t actually shoot has always been frowned upon.Another 'cheating' opportunity?
I still can’t see the logic in MLS.
If the score is that nessesary just hole out.
wjemather
Well-known member
Utter nonsense.
Do you have any opinion or argument about WHS that doesn't involve defaming (and/or insulting) the majority of golfers (and/or forum members) without providing any evidence to support it?
Thintowin
Active member
Only too happy to have that response from yourself. Clearly we don't see the golfing world through the same lens.
wjemather
Well-known member
Stableford?
In a golfing culture where most golf is played without holing out (e.g. match play), if you insisted on holing out, the number of scores being submitted would fall through the floor, and handicaps would be far less accurate (useful).
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
.?? What’s Stableford got to do with a false score on your card.?
If you think they are accurate now your kidding yourself.
No accurate handicapper shoots 46/50 pts
But lots do now.!
Thintowin
Active member
My crowd calls WHS the Wild-west Handicapping System.
wjemather
Well-known member
In Stableford, you don't have to hole out, and may write down "0", "NR", etc. or anything equal to nett double bogey or higher regardless of your actual score.
Maximum Score is similar.
More accurate than having no scores submitted at all.
Of course they do. And such scores happened before WHS too.
doublebogey7
Head Pro
Unfortunately you see this is the world we are in today, half the population believe's in reviewing evidence to form an opinion the oher half just wishes to form their opinions based on others unsubstanriated opinions.
Thintowin
Active member
Some people also have a vested interest.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
Is your interest vested enough to report your suspicions or just enough to rant on social media?
doublebogey7
Head Pro
Anyone with a handicap has a vested interest. It seems to me that you are arguing by way of your low handcap your vested interest is more important than others, or perhaps you would like to demonstrate to us all though you are not doing that and have some other basis for your opinion.
Thintowin
Active member
I have never mentioned my handicap.
I do not work for, or with, any of the organisations associated with WHS implementation. Of course to say you have that level of vested interest would make your argument invalid so no one is likely to step forward. Nevertheless my own experience tells me that the position of some of the arguments, often solely based on stats, makes me suspicious.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Nor have you ever specified which specific features you have objections to. Perhaps you will lets us know and what the specific solutions should be.
For starters, I will say my only major problem is with GP score management. I don't like the absence of full pre and post validation permitted by some countries and some ISVs in the UK.
The neglect of post return score checking by some handicap committees is not a fault of WHS but has shed a light on how poor many are (and probably always have been). Their reliance on the Annual Handicap Review was a disaster waiting to happen.
KenL
Tour Rookie
What is your hcp index @Thintowin ?
D-S
Well-known member
It’d be good to know as it would be nice to have at least one fact in his posts.
Dunesman
Active member
I dont think that is the case. Yes the barrier to entry to cheating is now lower, and there is some more of it, and it requires more work and cleaning up by committees, but I dont think it is dramatically spoiling the handicap world.
Some percieved cheating is probably coming from the push for GP scores. Those putting in GP score will naturally, even without any deliberate or premeditated cheating scheme, have higher handicaps than those putting in competition cards for their handicaps. Giving them an advantage when they do play in a competition against pur comp Index players. Easily misinterpreted as cheating. Comp and GP cards is trying to compare apples and oranges. In the US, they have the counterbalancing effect of Mulligans, gimmees, and not counting the odd lost ball. But that culture is still frowned on here, coming from our background of puritan competition scores determining your handicap. EG is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole on this. Its why it is failing.
Colin L
Tour Winner
This is beyond a joke. I for one am quite happy to "step forward" and let you know of my involvement with the transition to the WHS as, along with others, a volunteer handicap adviser. We were recruited by our national authority to support clubs in the transition to WHS; we all had a considerable depth of knowledge of the UHS and experience in managing it; and we were all given a very sound grounding in the workings of the new worldwide system. The introduction to it was an intensive two day workshop conducted by the very impressive USGA and R&A officers who led the entire project. That's right, the top guns of the group you described as halfwits. Of the others I have encountered in this supposedly half-witted group whether full-time paid officials or unpaid volunteers have been impressively knowledgeable and committed to getting it as right as possible.
I don't care much about your sounding off about cheating in the return of scores without coming up with any suggestion of what to do about it other than the absurdity of scrapping the entire WHS system. It's frustrating, but I can put up with your unswerving avoidance of saying anything at all about the actual system. But when you start impugning the integrity of these people - and incidentally mine - that's a step too far.
There are some who would say that depth of knowledge and experience gives greater strength to an argument rather than invalidates it.
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