Golf clubs low on membership

[Wolf]

I think cheaper courses are key. Britain isn't exactly a prosperous flourishing economy now, wages have stagnated while inflation and costs creep upwards year on year which is seriously hitting Joe Public in the pocket. Luxury past times are not affordable to many now.

Golf is expensive and time consuming with selfish attitudes. It'll continue to fall in popularity in Britain is my assessment.

Absolutely nailed it with that last part imo. Memberships are not cheap, golf isn't a game that allows for a quick fix, especially for those under 45yrs old with young families or those with more important outgoings on salaries that are stagnated in an unbelievably uncertain economic time.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It’s not clubs like yours that are at risk. You likely have a quality product in a reasonable location and a healthy pool of customers.

If your club a 27 hole complex is in the middle of nowhere, where there is already a high quality club but can still get away charging £15 for 18 holes and somehow not going under... then you would be bucking the trend.

There are only so many golfers who can be members, so many other distractions in life.

These clubs could reinvent themselves and survive but never as 18 hole member clubs with joining fees.

We need shorter courses, fewer holes and easier and cheaper to run and maintain clubs. Make them affordable all around and open to the huge market of nomad or infrequent golfer who can’t commit to a yearly sub for barley 6 or 7 rounds over a summer.

How huge a market do you think it is ? Suspect it’s not as huge as you suspect

Shorter, easier courses ?!? Why make it easier ? That’s sanitising the sport - If someone finds it hard - practise

Golf courses are expensive to look after even the bog standard public courses

I think cheaper courses are key. Britain isn't exactly a prosperous flourishing economy now, wages have stagnated while inflation and costs creep upwards year on year which is seriously hitting Joe Public in the pocket. Luxury past times are not affordable to many now.

Golf is expensive and time consuming with selfish attitudes. It'll continue to fall in popularity in Britain is my assessment.

A cheap golf course in most areas will mean a poor golf course , and a poor golf course will be the course that struggles in hard times

We don’t see top courses closing ? Why when they are the most expensive to play? Because there are still thousands of golfers out there that want to play these courses - they don’t want cheap they want quality

Golf memberships fluctuate with the financial conditions in the nation - it dropped during the recession, increased during the recovery and we now have a slight drop prob due to Brexit uncertainty , “selfish attitudes” ? Not exactly sure what these are in golf but again I doubt the impact is as much as you believe

Either way the sport has pretty much levelled out over the past 5 years - courses will close if they aren’t good enough or run poorly - but new courses appear

We don’t need to dumb down the sport or the courses - there will always be a course or a membership level for the golf you want in your area

 

[Bazzatron]

Two munis closing by me, Brandhall and Hill Top. Learned to play the game at both, sad to see them close. Still use them often.

 

[timd77]

Two munis closing by me, Brandhall and Hill Top. Learned to play the game at both, sad to see them close. Still use them often.

Is that true? I played those regularly until recently! Both very good courses.

 

[clubchamp98]

Two months isn't long, no help response from fellow members, pro and captain??? I'd be taking my custom elsewhere.

I recently moved clubs and my welcome has been tremendous. From the initial welcome/introduction game with a couple of council members, to the starter and club steward both taking the time to come and introduce themselves to me due to not knowing my face. Both also told me if I need any help not to hesitate to approach them. The pro has also been extremely pleasant and helpful. I also turned up at the Saturday morning sweep (roll up I think is your equivalent) and was made more than welcome.

That's what a good members club is all about.

Yes I agree with you but was trying to be a bit upbeat!
The response from the club and pro is really poor.
But you have to put your face about a bit to get involved as some members can be very hard to let a stranger in their games.
But you are right it should be more welcoming!

 

[Jacko_G]

How huge a market do you think it is ? Suspect it’s not as huge as you suspect

Shorter, easier courses ?!? Why make it easier ? That’s sanitising the sport - If someone finds it hard - practise

Golf courses are expensive to look after even the bog standard public courses



A cheap golf course in most areas will mean a poor golf course , and a poor golf course will be the course that struggles in hard times

We don’t see top courses closing ? Why when they are the most expensive to play? Because there are still thousands of golfers out there that want to play these courses - they don’t want cheap they want quality

Golf memberships fluctuate with the financial conditions in the nation - it dropped during the recession, increased during the recovery and we now have a slight drop prob due to Brexit uncertainty , “selfish attitudes” ? Not exactly sure what these are in golf but again I doubt the impact is as much as you believe

Either way the sport has pretty much levelled out over the past 5 years - courses will close if they aren’t good enough or run poorly - but new courses appear

We don’t need to dumb down the sport or the courses - there will always be a course or a membership level for the golf you want in your area

You're missing the point. "Working class" don't have the disposable income anymore due to inflation and and huge rises in cost of living while their wages have stalled. That bracket are the ones walking away as they reassess their incomes and needs. Family comes before golf.

The club's who depended on this are the ones struggling, top courses will always have the money and demand. That's life.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You're missing the point. "Working class" don't have the disposable income anymore due to inflation and and huge rises in cost of living while their wages have stalled. That bracket are the ones walking away as they reassess their incomes and needs. Family comes before golf.

The club's who depended on this are the ones struggling, top courses will always have the money and demand. That's life.

You can’t “make” golf cheaper - golf clubs on a whole make what is needed to keep the course going , they aren’t looking to make profits , any money earned is money spent back into the course - offer cheap golf make less money , course then starts to suffer , less people play it because it’s in a poor condition and the end game is closure.

Start making the product cheaper you reduce the quality -

And it’s not always about the cost - our club is full of working class people - time is a big barrier for people but that’s the nature of the sport.

 

[IanM]

You're missing the point. "Working class" don't have the disposable income anymore due to inflation and and huge rises in cost of living while their wages have stalled. That bracket are the ones walking away as they reassess their incomes and needs. Family comes before golf.

The club's who depended on this are the ones struggling, top courses will always have the money and demand. That's life.

I'm not sure what the boundary of Working Class is, but lots of middle aged blokes who would have played golf in the 80s are now clogging up B Roads, in funny clothes, riding £5k bicycles!

 

[Hobbit]

You're missing the point. "Working class" don't have the disposable income anymore due to inflation and and huge rises in cost of living while their wages have stalled. That bracket are the ones walking away as they reassess their incomes and needs. Family comes before golf.

The club's who depended on this are the ones struggling, top courses will always have the money and demand. That's life.

Are working class significantly worse off in recent years due to inflation. I genuinely don't know but would ask the question that if inflation has been running at between 1% and 3%, and the average wage increase has been running at around 0.5% below inflation just how much has wages lagged behind inflation? The raw numbers suggest that, based on the average wage, the lag is around £13 per month - that's not even 4 pints of beer a month. That's one pint a week.

That aside, there's a good number of articles with emotional headlines suggesting armageddon is just around the corner in terms of club numbers. But the stats don't accurately reflect the headlines, and do in fact suggest that numbers have increased slightly since 2014.

But there's been a number of clubs gone to the wall. How is that reconciled against membership numbers/fees? Maybe its down to members becoming nomads. Maybe its because the inflation factors for a business are different to those that Joe Public feels, e.g. a significant cost for a club is diesel. Has diesel gone up at a greater rate than the average inflation rate? Have some clubs gone to the wall because over a period of time they've frozen their subs to retain membership numbers, and are now doubly struggling to make ends meet?

Honestly, I think any change is down to popularity. Golf just doesn't light many people's candles. Many guys coming away from Sunday league football find other, less time-consuming sports. And guys are more family orientated now than they've ever been.

But the stats suggest that golf is slightly on the up? Go figure.

 

[RangeMonkey]

Are working class significantly worse off in recent years due to inflation. I genuinely don't know but would ask the question that if inflation has been running at between 1% and 3%, and the average wage increase has been running at around 0.5% below inflation just how much has wages lagged behind inflation? The raw numbers suggest that, based on the average wage, the lag is around £13 per month - that's not even 4 pints of beer a month. That's one pint a week.

But that’s been going for over ten years. So that’s £130 a month, or, with compounding, closer to £200 a month. And the figures are skewed by higher earners. For low and middle earners, it’s much worse.

20 years ago, I earned about 60% of what I earn now (because I’ve progressed in my career), but I had easily double the disposable income.

 

[stefanovic]

Two munis closing by me, Brandhall and Hill Top. Learned to play the game at both, sad to see them close. Still use them often.

Hilltop may be closed for a revamp. It's in Sandwell Valley country park so housing is unlikely. Whenever I've been there in the last few years the huge car park hasn't had many cars in it. So they need to do something.

Brandhall probably will close because of declining membership. It has more dog walkers than golfers and kids invade the course after school ripping out the flags. A couple of years ago when I complained about this I was told by a guy sitting in the shop "I don't give a ####!"

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/totally-disgusted-golfers-fear-course-17163023

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm not sure what the boundary of Working Class is, but lots of middle aged blokes who would have played golf in the 80s are now clogging up B Roads, in funny clothes, riding £5k bicycles!

I heard recently on the radio someone from either the EGU or the R and A saying the biggest competition for golf was from cycling. People who would have naturally moved into golf were now taking up cycling. It's a good point.

 

[Wolf]

I heard recently on the radio someone from either the EGU or the R and A saying the biggest competition for golf was from cycling. People who would have naturally moved into golf were now taking up cycling. It's a good point.

Think that was the guy in charge of the R&A was an interesting podcast with him as a guests with Hugh Marr I think it was, discussing the decline in that, cycling has become the No1 challenge to golf as a sport because it can be done socially with family without any constraints or can be done a apart of a club in less time and more numbers.

Edit: Keith Pelly head of ET also did one about state of the game, unaffordable costs and the amount of time it takes to play being factors stopping familys from getting into the game.

 

[IanM]

Just received our accounts. Club made a loss this year, but spent a lot of money on new bunkers and practice facilities. But, the club is full and still charges a joining fee. Vicious circle of needing to invest and being able to do so.

I think we are right at the top of what we are able to charge, will be interesting to see how a £50 increase in subs (first in several years) is received at AGM. But, the courses that have closed in our region were built in 1980s and didn't keep the quality up....

 

[robinthehood]

Oof , I've been a member at quite a few places and they've all had a group of long serving members who feel they have some special standing due to being there so long. Rights to specific times as that's when they've always played etc...

 

[Bazzatron]

Is that true? I played those regularly until recently! Both very good courses.

Hilltop is apparently closing for two years and will come back remodelled and with a par 3 and range. Believe it when I see it.

Brandhall, they're consulting with all concerned parties. Can see it shutting.

 

[4LEX]

For me theres way too many mediocre or average golf courses and clubs. I think you can probably close a third of them and no one would really miss them. Much better for have quality over quantity.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think there are definitely greater time constraints on many people these days and so spending four hours (or more) is hard to factor in, let alone any extra time in the 19th. There is also the cost factor and some clubs still insisting on a joining fee to make an initial hit quite big, even if this is deferred or paid over several years. I think clubs have to work harder to make their product more appealing on and off the course and many don't seem to making the effort

 

[Hobbit]

A quick search;

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/golf-club-membership-in-england-on-the-rise-164088

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Another interesting point of view https://www.golfshake.com/news/view/14389/Golf_Course_Closures_Fast_Reaching_Crisis_Point.html