proprietary Golf clubs, AGM engagement

[Oddsocks]

Over breakfast this morning the committee and pro shop staff were trying to encourage members to attend the up and coming AGM in feb, there were some comments made that over past years the attendance has dwindled despite the membership numbers almost doubling.

A comment was made that with the club being proprietary owned, despite a member attending for over 6 consecutive AGMs pre proposed changes / discussions have never made the agender so they didn’t see any point in attending.

Having had some time away from the club I haven’t been at the last three, but from experience I’m in agreement from the previous attended.

There are points I’d like to bring up as I’m considering moving on if certain things don’t change, but these are topics that have been posted by many over the years and have never been looked at.

So the question is, do members of proprietary owned clubs see any positive outcomes from their AGM’s and are they also seeing a drop in member engagement to attend?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Having been at a proprietary owned club before, I wouldnt bother with anything. You have no input, so the time you spent is wasted as is your energy. A members club, for sure attend. Anything esle, I wouldnt bother.

 

[Tashyboy]

My feeling is they wouldn’t care what you said, and would care even less if you left. Why? Because as you say, membership has doubled. What does surprise is the fact the club wants members to attend the AGM. Whats the point, what’s in it for the members.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

My previous club was proprietary and my experience sounds similar to @Bunkermagnet . I even spent time on one of the committees before realising how pointless this was.

The previous owner / manager was more inclined to listen to members apparently and so AGM attendance was reasonable. The numbers declined with the new regime. After all, why waste your time going out on a cold night when you can't change anything?

The view I came to in the end, before I left, was turn up, play golf, have fun, leave. Don't worry about how the place runs, its faults etc. You either accept what's on offer or you leave

 

[Oddsocks]

It’s interesting that the first three responses seem to summarise the percentage of the membership.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It’s interesting that the first three responses seem to summarise the percentage of the membership.

It's a mindset thing. It really bothered me for a period, things that were wrong at the club that could be resolved either easily or by a different approach. Then the penny dropped, I accepted I wasn't playing at a members club, I had no say and so deal with it.

It was actually quite liberating in the end. Also slightly sad in that you have to accept this is not your club, it is just a club you play golf at. Similar to going to your nearest swimming baths. You use it, you really have no say in how it's run.

 

[Oddsocks]

It’s interesting @Lord Tyrion as there are common subjects that just fall on deaf ears. I think as you said it’s a business and you’re just a customer. A big percentage of gripes from members is tee availability but as a proprietary club it will always rely on this.

I’m not sure liberating is the term I’d use, but that’s the product on offer. If the supplier is not interested in feedback and prepared to act on it even partially then you need to decide if that’s the product you want any more

 

[Slab]

I’d imagine the AGM for a proprietary club membership is just as valid as it is for a members run club, just a different type of item/s on the agenda

Don’t expect to make motions and decisions that aren’t in your remit & don’t expect to see them on the agenda

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As to the why members being encouraged to attend? Perhaps if attendance is good the proprietor can cite good numbers attending AGM as implicit support for changes he might implement…whether or not they are covered at the AGM. Kinda intuitively opposite of what you might otherwise think when he might cite low numbers at an AGM as lack of interest so he can do pretty much anything he wants.

 

[IanM]

For Proprietary Clubs, Engagement has many forms. If the club us serious about it, its a great way of telling its "customers" about future plans, work in progress and obtaining feedback.

Of course, this can be done well or badly! They have no need to listen, and you have no need to pay up at subs time. But, that doesn't mean it has to be a wasted experience.

From what you said, I'd be asking why they think this agm will be different from previous experiences.

 

[Bdill93]

Pointless attending ours - our owner never listens to the members and just do their own thing with the place. Committee is mainly irrelevant, they have little to no control over anything at the club.

Cheapest golf for miles though and you get what you pay for.

 

[jim8flog]

I am a member at a members club.

There have been some years when we have come close to cancelling the AGM due to insufficient members attending to make a quorum.

I lost a bit of 'interest in them' when one set of committee members advised us that items discussed and votes taken were not binding on the committee just informative. To be binding there had to be a vote at an EGM.

 

[chrisd]

Even at my members club it feels too "set in stone" the agenda is laid down by the committee and is rigid, there is no spontaneous "any other business", so any questions have to be submitted in advance. The accounts are sent out a couple of weeks prior but everyone knows that the accounts are simply a snapshot of the financial position at midnight on one given day - so are not always meaningfull.

Frankly I can't be arsed to attend

 

[patricks148]

i suppose it depends what type of owner/ company is running the club. there must be some that care about members.

it was a while ago but there was a club in Inverness that has the range, a guy i knew was elected onto the committee as vice captain, he had a number of good ideas, put them to the AGM, the owner stood up as said if you dont like if eff off

 

[Bratty]

My proprietary club stopped holding AGMs in 2018 as attendance dropped to around 30 members out of 450, and the owners decided it had also become a waste of time as most members stood up and moaned about the stupidest things at times, and waited a year to do it!
The GM has an open door policy and people can speak to him or his staff any time about issues. Whether anything happens is another matter. Members have little say in what goes on at our place.

 

[LincolnShep]

Even at my members club it feels too "set in stone" the agenda is laid down by the committee and is rigid, there is no spontaneous "any other business", so any questions have to be submitted in advance. The accounts are sent out a couple of weeks prior but everyone knows that the accounts are simply a snapshot of the financial position at midnight on one given day - so are not always meaningfull.

Frankly I can't be arsed to attend

It's not recommended to have "spontaneous" AOB at an AGM. However, members should be invited to submit items for inclusion on the agenda. You get better outcomes when there is time for the club committee (or company board) to prepare and research the answers to questions.

 

[Oddsocks]

There’s a few things that will determine me staying at the club or leaving and it seems common from others. Given the renewals are in May a Feb AGM seems a good idea. Gives them time to implement or ignore.

 

[chrisd]

It's not recommended to have "spontaneous" AOB at an AGM. However, members should be invited to submit items for inclusion on the agenda. You get better outcomes when there is time for the club committee (or company board) to prepare and research the answers to questions.

The "better outcomes" depend on the question and integrity of the committee I've found. If the questions are allowed on the night they can always answer by a "we can't answer that off the cuff but will come back within a time with an answer" but often there are better discussions on the night.

I've found with pre submitted questions sometimes the committee find dodging them with guff more easy

 

[LincolnShep]

The "better outcomes" depend on the question and integrity of the committee I've found. If the questions are allowed on the night they can always answer by a "we can't answer that off the cuff but will come back within a time with an answer" but often there are better discussions on the night.

I've found with pre submitted questions sometimes the committee find dodging them with guff more easy

Well, the recommendation is to not have AOB at an AGM, but whatever works for your club I suppose.

 

[NearHull]

I’m on our Board at a Memvers Club. The AOB at the AGM is the most entertaining bit. Issues swing from the banal to the mind provoking. ( but mainly rants) .