Golf clubs low on membership

[Deleted member 15344]

Yip I can.

I left my local clubs due to soggy crap winter golf and now travel 22 miles each way to ay on the coast as I simply wasn't getting value for money.

But you didn’t leave for a “short easy course” and that’s not “substance” that it’s “killing the game”

If a course is poor in the winter or during heavy rain period then it will suffer so as I said from the start - poor quality courses are the ones that will suffer and that’s regardless of its length

A lot of the courses that are closing or suffering are ones that popped up during the boom , on clay based farmland - it’s not surprise that when people get a choice as there is now they go for the better quality ones , ones that allow more golf ( not easier or quicker ) to be played

When our course was extended then used poor soil and during wet times the back 9 was closed and we were losing members - so the club spent a lot of money on installing new drainage and now it’s open every day except snow

 

[Jacko_G]

Not up here. We're losing established tracks with years of history.

 

[Parsaregood]

Not up here. We're losing established tracks with years of history.

Simply because theres too many courses in central/sw scotland. Within a 5 mile radius of my house I have nearly 20 golf courses. That isnt sustainable even for the most popular of sports

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not up here. We're losing established tracks with years of history.

Then there is a high chance that there is a difference between Scotland and England -

How many of the established clubs are what you would call top clubs and are the members moving on or just stopping ?

Are they members clubs ? Municipal Clubs ? Is the area flooded with clubs from that boom

https://www.heraldscotland.com/spor...club-closures-par-course-savage-natural-cull/

Did find this interesting with fingers being pointed at clubs not reacting to changes over the years

Or do people in Scotland just play less golf now ?

I think it’s impossible to point at one reason

Golf had a big boom - then it’s dropped to normal levels and clubs need to find ways to make their product attractive and for all ages

value for money is one key for many - are people getting a good product for their money

There are yearly reports on these members numbers and it seems over the 5 years it’s mainly grown especially in England and new courses are being built

But the answer isn’t and never we’ll be - built short easier courses

 

[robinthehood]

As already asked - do you really think there is a big enough market for someone to build a “short easier” course ? Or is it just to suit your needs ?

Long boggy courses killing the game ? Sorry but that’s utter rubbish unless you can provide some substance behind it ?

And the game isn’t dieing,

Have you played Beadlow lately 😂😂

 

[patricks148]

Not up here. We're losing established tracks with years of history.

.
yep same up here Strathpeffer struggling built 1888, Golspie too 1889 and Tain which Old Tom, updated and built in 1889 all struggling, mainly as the cost has risen, demand has fallen.

Strath I'm told now only has 20 ish members

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Have you played Beadlow lately 😂😂

Nope because even when courses were doing well that was still a poor course and when wet will suffer again from poor drainage and not investing in the course or club to improve it.

 

[Jacko_G]

Simply because theres too many courses in central/sw scotland. Within a 5 mile radius of my house I have nearly 20 golf courses. That isnt sustainable even for the most popular of sports

Of course it can't be sustained and I've argued for years that Scotland needs at least another 70+ clubs to go to the wall for others to survive and start to prosper again.

That said it's lack of time and finances that always gets rolled out as excuses for people leaving. When people start to leave the club's suffer until it's not financially viable for them to continue to operate. Therefore it's a "natural selection" of survival of the fittest. Clubs that start to lose members continue to lose members due to lack of investment, this leads to others (who can still afford time/finances) migrating to "better" clubs.

It's another reason why clubs are introducing 9 hole competitions as a way to try and keep members who claim 4.5/5 hour medal rounds are not acceptable or can't justify that amount of time away from family/other commitments.

Golf is on a downward spiral in Scotland at present. There is no other way to paint the picture. It's going to keep going that way for the foreseeable.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think it does need a bit of a refresh, a fresh approach would do it good.

People play for fun. Long, boggy, unkept courses are killing the game.

We need cheaper, shorter, easier, quicker to play courses that gets the golf fix but fits with the modern age.

Harder courses and members courses will always have, they are the ones doing the best now as they have cornered the core market. They know their audience and play right to them.

The rest of the courses need to cater to the rest of the golfing market, not try and tap into the market already catered for.

Disagree. If a club is unkempt then that will always put members off and of course as a result a club will then struggle, If it's that boggy then argument would be it shouldn't be open and then again people will drift away. Either way at some point it become uneconomic and a club will close. That is nothing to do with a fresh approach but simple maths. Similarly people aren't going to join and STAY at a club that is short and easy to play. We all want to play a course that is interesting and provides a fresh challenge each time we play. In winter, there is nothing to stop members playing off a yellow or even further forward tee.

 

[stefanovic]

As for the 8 former Birmingham municipals now under private management, they are still open. But compared to the levels of the 1990's when they peaked they now have at the most about one quarter membership.
Most at risk are Boldmere, Harborne CF, Lickeys. These are courses that have not diversified.

 

[Orikoru]

There's another course near me that's closing temporarily so they can sell their clubhouse to be demolished and used for housing: https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/17954431.members-say-goodbye-bushey-hall-golf-club/

A new clubhouse supposedly being put up, not sure where they're fitting it in.

Looking back over the years, Ms Taylor said: "There have been a lot of changes. When I joined, we had around 500 members. Now we have around 160.​

​

Sad to see on a course I've played many times. What happens to a course which is closed for two years?? Does someone keep it mowed and everything even though nobody's playing there? Or does it just overgrow and then they have to practically start from scratch in the up-keep before it reopens?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There's another course near me that's closing temporarily so they can sell their clubhouse to be demolished and used for housing: https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/17954431.members-say-goodbye-bushey-hall-golf-club/

A new clubhouse supposedly being put up, not sure where they're fitting it in.

Looking back over the years, Ms Taylor said: "There have been a lot of changes. When I joined, we had around 500 members. Now we have around 160.​

​

Sad to see on a course I've played many times. What happens to a course which is closed for two years?? Does someone keep it mowed and everything even though nobody's playing there? Or does it just overgrow and then they have to practically start from scratch in the up-keep before it reopens?

If they don't keep the greenkeeper / groundsman on then it will just be left and get overgrown. Why would someone cut it, look after it for free. My club went into administration 3 years ago. Luckily the administrator was a golfer so he made sure the greenkeeper and team were kept on and paid. They closed the clubhouse to save money but they protected the course as that was the key asset. After all what use a clubhouse if there is no course?

The question for this course is do they have funds to keep a greens team going without golfers there to pay fees? Equally, if they only have 160 members is it really viable? If it closes the members will go and play elsewhere, they will have to. How many would come back? Once closed, incredibly doubtful if it can come back.

 

[sunshine]

There's another course near me that's closing temporarily so they can sell their clubhouse to be demolished and used for housing: https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/17954431.members-say-goodbye-bushey-hall-golf-club/

A new clubhouse supposedly being put up, not sure where they're fitting it in.

Looking back over the years, Ms Taylor said: "There have been a lot of changes. When I joined, we had around 500 members. Now we have around 160.​

​

Sad to see on a course I've played many times. What happens to a course which is closed for two years?? Does someone keep it mowed and everything even though nobody's playing there? Or does it just overgrow and then they have to practically start from scratch in the up-keep before it reopens?

They are retaining some of the green staff to maintain the course. Doesn't need a full team as there will be no play on the course.

The plan is to build the new clubhouse where the pro shop currently is.

To be honest, unless the economic environment is drastically different in two years time, I can't see them successfully reopening the course. The only reason I can see that the club was able to hold on to members was loyalty... but that has been taken out of the equation. Loads of other courses in the area so people who moved are unlikely to move back unless there is a tangible incentive.

 

[Orikoru]

They are retaining some of the green staff to maintain the course. Doesn't need a full team as there will be no play on the course.

The plan is to build the new clubhouse where the pro shop currently is.

To be honest, unless the economic environment is drastically different in two years time, I can't see them successfully reopening the course. The only reason I can see that the club was able to hold on to members was loyalty... but that has been taken out of the equation. Loads of other courses in the area so people who moved are unlikely to move back unless there is a tangible incentive.

Would have to be a pretty small clubhouse to fit it there wouldn't it?? Yeah, you can't really see lots of people flooding back with their membership if they've settled in somewhere else can you? I imagine Aldenham, West Herts and Radlett would have picked up a lot of their members, who won't be jumping at the chance to move back I shouldn't think. Must take a long time to build up a reasonable membership from scratch.

That said, if membership is cheap when they reopen I'd consider it myself.

 

[robinthehood]

Would have to be a pretty small clubhouse to fit it there wouldn't it?? Yeah, you can't really see lots of people flooding back with their membership if they've settled in somewhere else can you? I imagine Aldenham, West Herts and Radlett would have picked up a lot of their members, who won't be jumping at the chance to move back I shouldn't think. Must take a long time to build up a reasonable membership from scratch.

That said, if membership is cheap when they reopen I'd consider it myself.

Exactly, lots will happily flit from course to course for a good deal.
Me included 😂

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Exactly, lots will happily flit from course to course for a good deal.
Me included 😂

I get the fact that membership is far more transient than previously and many will go from introductory offer to offer and the days of someone being at a club even 5+ years isn't a given. If a club closes and then reopens then it has to work even harder than already open clubs to attract and retain the members and so everything has to be spot on from day one. If a course is closing and reopening it will be critiqued strongly and everything will cost not insignificant money to be up to scratch.

 

[sunshine]

Would have to be a pretty small clubhouse to fit it there wouldn't it?? Yeah, you can't really see lots of people flooding back with their membership if they've settled in somewhere else can you? I imagine Aldenham, West Herts and Radlett would have picked up a lot of their members, who won't be jumping at the chance to move back I shouldn't think. Must take a long time to build up a reasonable membership from scratch.

That said, if membership is cheap when they reopen I'd consider it myself.

Yeah I imagine the new clubhouse will be much more modest. Don't they could afford to maintain the old one.

Aldenham, Radlett and Grims Dyke are minutes away and offer a similar product. Stanmore and Pinner Hill are pretty close too. That's 5 courses in a similar price bracket within a 10 min drive. If you're prepared to pay a little more you've got West Herts, Porters Park, Hartsbourne, Batchworth, Sandy Lodge. It's a crowded market, some people will hop around looking for deals but what club can rely on transient members and no stability?

 

[HamiltonGuy]

A number of courses in lanarkshire Hamilton strathaven bothwell Lanark all have joining fees and a number have waiting lists. Think it depends on the quality of courses. Plenty of cheaper alternatives but in a number of instances you get what you pay for