SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Yes…but I’m pretty sure our handicap committee knows the players whose handicap needs a bit of monitoring.
England Golf General Play Restrictions
- Thread starter tomshanks
- Start date
Captain_Black.
Well-known member
I read this with interest this morning & it's interesting to note that England Golf are acknowledging that there is a problem with WHS although this ammendment will only affect a minority of players.
I wonder how long it will be, if ever? They address the real elephant in the room that is spoiling the game for a majority of mid handicap golfers.
I get that especially in this day & age England Golf want to appear to be fully inclusive, but to raise the max H/C from 28 to 54 was just crazy.
28 is still an awful lot of shots & should be plenty for the vast majority.
It just makes a mockery of golf, especially in the summer with a bit of roll, some of the real high handicappers can & do just duff it around getting 2 or sometimes 3 shots per hole & come in with ridiculous scores.
I wonder how long it will be, if ever? They address the real elephant in the room that is spoiling the game for a majority of mid handicap golfers.
I get that especially in this day & age England Golf want to appear to be fully inclusive, but to raise the max H/C from 28 to 54 was just crazy.
28 is still an awful lot of shots & should be plenty for the vast majority.
It just makes a mockery of golf, especially in the summer with a bit of roll, some of the real high handicappers can & do just duff it around getting 2 or sometimes 3 shots per hole & come in with ridiculous scores.
D
Deleted member 15717
Guest
You know the rise to a 54 handicap came in well before WHS right?
Alan Clifford
Well-known member
I put all my cards in so my handicap reflects how I am playing. But I don't enter elite competitions, it's personal. I'm going to play a couple of courses this month I've only played once before and I want my handicap to be current. Again, it's personal.
If a competition versus general play handicap comparison is considered neccessary by competition organisers, even at a club level, then "go for it".
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
What’s the difference between a comp round and a general play round? Other than some people wet themselves “with a card in their hand” ??
Backache
Assistant Pro
A cynic might suggest you are less likely to be able to choose your marker in a competition round.What’s the difference between a comp round and a general play round? Other than some people wet themselves “with a card in their hand” ??
A non cynic may suggest that course set up such as pin positions may be tougher in a competition round.
A general play round is likely to be off yellow tees, a comp off whites. People can say all they like about how slope, ratings etc take account of that but imo they really don't. My two best counting scores at my club are general play off yellows by a far greater amount than the ratings allow. It's just easier, although not easy, off forward tees for me. It's all about distance. If I had 8 GP scores counting I reckon my HI would be 3-4 shots lower. Great for the ego but pointless to me as as soon as I go back to the whites I would be scoring higher.What’s the difference between a comp round and a general play round? Other than some people wet themselves “with a card in their hand” ??
Captain_Black.
Well-known member
In a GP round you get to play off 100% of your H/C, in a competition round it's 95%
D
Deleted member 15717
Guest
What’s the difference between a comp round and a general play round? Other than some people wet themselves “with a card in their hand” ??
In the widest sense...should be no difference whatsoever....but as soon as someone thinks competition, their mindeset changes. GP, I imagine most folks relax a bit more....and potentially could be a little more relaxed on rules too (a true who could say).
Makes zero difference in handicapping and the differential calculation. This is always calculated at 100%
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Having been on the committee when the increase came in we reviewed all players who were 28/36 and most had their handicaps increased in line with the handicap that would be given to a new player. One player was increased to 40 and he has only ever played to the 40 once in the 5 years since it came in.
There a lot of of older players who have played for years but can no longer play to what would have been considered reasonable at 28 prior to Jan 2018.
I do understand what you say to some extent but really with Peer Review it is up to other players to put in written complaints about such players so that handicap committees have to carry out a review. In particular players who manage and run swindles/roll ups should be keeping a record of all players scores so these can be used in reviews.
wjemather
Well-known member
At many clubs most comps are not from the whites (only about 10% at ours; far less when including senior conps).
That you find the shorter, lower rated, tees (at your course) easier, doesn't make ratings wrong. Overall, ratings do a decent job of accounting for the difference in difficulty between tees (notwithstanding that some clubs fail to set their course up in a comparable way as it was rated). However not all golfers are the same and it's inevitable that many players will find the longer or shorter (higher or lower rated) tees easier to return a good score (relative to the ratings).
All the weekend comps at my club are off whites and as I work mid week they are the ones I play. It will be the same at many other clubs, certainly in my area.
You are quite correct about your next point, it all depends on what is the main thing that holds back your scoring. For me it is length so shortening a course makes a huge difference. If your weakness is your short game then taking 400yds off the course doesn't matter a jot.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Presumably, if you don't think the ratings take into account the differences between different courses, primarily on the same piece of land, then you also have no confidence that the ratings take into account the differences between courses on different land? Therefore, it is all a bit pointless if players compete against each other, if their handicap is based on rounds played primarily at different clubs?
Swango1980
Well-known member
Given that there are probably many club golfers out there today, who play plenty of golf, have handicaps exceeding 28, should probably indicate that increasing the max handicap from 28 is not a mockery. Before they did this, there were probably a lot of golfers stuck on 28.0, and next to no chance in ever competing. 54 is very high, but I know of very few players anywhere near that level. Even very poor scoring beginners. I was handicap sec at my last place, a course that is popular amongst beginners, and it was extremely rare the system gave anyone a handicap over 40.
Of course, when it comes to competitions, the competition sec can simply place a max handicap limit, or other conditions, aimed at avoiding an issue of someone with a very high handicap, which may be based on very few rounds and not overly reliable, playing and smashing the field. Therefore, golfers are happy that the integrity of the competition is protected, whilst golfers with lesser ability can continue to submit GP rounds, or rounds from less restrictive competitions, and truly see how their handicap stabilises and better reflects their ability. Rather than just being stuck on 28, and not really knowing where they stand above that.
It's better than the previous system. No system will be spot on, I think most people accept that. Let's face it, if the current system was 100% they would not be bringing in the GP restrictions as being discussed here.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I think we are talking about different issues here though.
The comment I replied to was simply related to the assumption that the ratings used between whites and yellow tees don't really take into account the differences between the two courses at all. I simply extended that to say that, if true, it would also be true between any two courses, regardless of the plot of land they are on. Unless the raters have made any significant mistakes in rating the whites and yellows at a course, any perception is relative difficulty (against the ratings) are probably more related to individual strengths and weaknesses, just like some golfers like playing at some golf courses and seem to struggle at others. In general, however, the ratings could still be spot on.
GP restrictions is a separate issue, and more likely related to the integrity of some golfers rather than the theoretical accuracy of the system.
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
So one day they tell us that our handicaps aren't representative of our ability, unless we put in a card everytime we play. Now they're saying that the handicap isn't representative if we put in loads of general play cards, and that brings our handicaps down?
It's almost as if the WHS system doesn't work hmm
It's almost as if the WHS system doesn't work hmm
Wonder if SG is thinking of this?
We don't have much In the way of low handicap comps, certainly not up here apart from elite comps. One thing we do have is a real drop in participation in comps that are geared at lower handicaps. The county champs are really poorly attended, our one has even been cancelled twice fue to lack of entries. The big comp the Northern open, which used to be a scratch and better, you could get in this year with a handicap of 5.
We don't have much In the way of low handicap comps, certainly not up here apart from elite comps. One thing we do have is a real drop in participation in comps that are geared at lower handicaps. The county champs are really poorly attended, our one has even been cancelled twice fue to lack of entries. The big comp the Northern open, which used to be a scratch and better, you could get in this year with a handicap of 5.
Ratings are subjective and with my own circumstances I don't see the ratings at my own course between whites and yellows as being accurate. They might be in the eyes of others, that's fine, but I doubt I am on my own there. Extending that to other courses, again the rating is subjective but even allowing for that it has to be better than not allowing for course difficulty at all. I'm not knocking the system as a whole but I do think that most courses will produce lower h/c for players off the yellows than whites than the ratings account for (based on no large scale statistical analysis but finding it to be the case when playing multiple courses myself and finding it to be true
)
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
It kind of leans that way for me too...So one day they tell us that our handicaps aren't representative of our ability, unless we put in a card everytime we play. Now they're saying that the handicap isn't representative if we put in loads of general play cards, and that brings our handicaps down?
It's almost as if the WHS system doesn't work hmm
We're encouraged to enter cards, at least, most of the time to get an accurate Index....
Now, admittedly only in the elite amateur events, it has to mostly competition rounds....
Which it was before as Supplementary cards were either sparingly used by low guys or not allowed....
Wish they'd make up their minds....
We're now going to get people with few competition rounds in their 20 being frowned upon by other members who have mostly competitions rounds....whether they're elite or not...
