Every territory uses CR-Par in the calculations of your actual handicap index, ie in the score differentials.
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Every territory uses CR-Par in the calculations of your actual handicap index, ie in the score differentials.
Some territories use it to give you your playing handicap for the day, and some don't. This doesn't matter, for two reasons:
1) Every competitor will be using CR-Par, or every competitor WON'T be using CR-Par. Everyone's handicap is affected by the same amount, because CR-Par is a constant for a given set of tees.
2) The calculations for the differential care not what your playing handicap was for the day, only gross score.
Now, there IS the nett double bogey limit that comes in, and I haven't given it enough thought as to how that might affect things, but I'd wager that either it a) affects everyone similarly or b) is negligible.
(I'm conscious that my use of italics, capitals etc could be coming across as frustrated or condescending and I don't mean that at all - I'm just trying to place emphasis where I would if I was speaking out loud
As relatively more difficult for a bogey player than a scratch player both playing on that course. Which is why the bogey player has their Course Handicap increased.
No, CR-par is a better quick reckoner.
Go for it with the emphasis because I'm still missing something
Lets say you, me @Voyager EMH and @rulefan enter an Open at Painswick off the yellows which for this scenario is an away club for all 4 of us
Now I'll do you three a disservice and allocate you all a Handicap Index of between 14.6-15.6 (just to match me)
We all turn up at the proshop to check in and flash proof of our WHS membership number/HI etc
At first glance Painswick's published USGA/R&A Course Handicap calculation sheet would put us all off a Course Handicap of 14 for this comp, but...
Because my home club is in a territory that uses CR-Par, for the purposes of placing/results in this comp I alone shouldn't have a Course Handicap of 14, it should be 6
without this 'adjustment' I'll have a course handicap for the comp that is way too high and I fancy my chances of picking up a sleeve of balls
but there is no mention on any course handicap calculation sheet I have seen that mentions CR-Par
What is the rule/process (or system intervention) that a competition committee must follow for every comp with 'away' players to ensure everyone's HI is checked to make sure the integrity of the comp result is accurate and my placing in the comp is based on CH 6 and not 14 ?
(thanks for your patience)
(I'm probably more like an 18 or 19 on a good day)I'm not sure why there is a problem. As sjw says and as I understand it 1) Every competitor will be using CR-Par, or every competitor WON'T be using CR-Par.Go for it with the emphasis because I'm still missing something
Lets say you, me @Voyager EMH and @rulefan enter an Open at Painswick off the yellows which for this scenario is an away club for all 4 of us
Now I'll do you three a disservice and allocate you all a Handicap Index of between 14.6-15.6 (just to match me)
We all turn up at the proshop to check in and flash proof of our WHS membership number/HI etc
At first glance Painswick's published USGA/R&A Course Handicap calculation sheet would put us all off a Course Handicap of 14 for this comp, but...
Because my home club is in a territory that uses CR-Par, for the purposes of placing/results in this comp I alone shouldn't have a Course Handicap of 14, it should be 6
without this 'adjustment' I'll have a course handicap for the comp that is way too high and I fancy my chances of picking up a sleeve of balls
but there is no mention on any course handicap calculation sheet I have seen that mentions CR-Par
What is the rule/process (or system intervention) that a competition committee must follow for every comp with 'away' players to ensure everyone's HI is checked to make sure the integrity of the comp result is accurate and my placing in the comp is based on CH 6 and not 14 ?
(thanks for your patience)
First of all, thank you for assuming that would be a disservice to me
Let's assume that you are a member of two identical courses, right down to individual blades of grass, and one is in a CR-Par territory and one isn't. Because the courses are identical, they'll have identical ratings, and your HI will obviously carry between both.
Let's say that the course follows Painswick's yellow ratings of SR=105 and CR=63.9, par=72. We'll assume that your HI is a nice round 15.
Forgetting about par for a minute, if you shoot 85, you will get a differential of 113/105*(85-63.9) = 22.07, regardless of which version of the course you're playing, because the ratings are identical. Notice that your HI isn't included anywhere in that calculation.
Now, when you step on the tee of the CR-Par course, you'll be told that you have a course handicap of 15*105/113 + (63.9 - 72) = 5.8.
On the non-CR-Par course, you'll be told that you have a playing handicap of 15*105/113 = 13.9.
But we know these courses are identical, so this can't possibly cause a problem, or the sums wouldn't work!
What they are saying is as follows:
* The CR-Par course is saying that you have to score 5.8 over par, or 77.8, to score a differential of 15.
* The non-CR-Par course is saying that you have to score 13.9 over CR, or (funnily enough) 77.8, to score a differential of 15.
The CR-Par has just made things easier for you to relate to on the course - virtually everyone compares their score to par as they go round. Notice above that the calculation for differentials involves CR-Par regardless of whether the course includes it in your CH or not.
The point I am trying to make is that you (and I, and rulefan, and Voyager in your example) have a hadicap of ~15 because that is the average of the best 8 of our last 20 differentials, and it does not matter which course we scored them at. The calculation is the same regardless of what we're told our playing handicap is, because the playing handicap doesn't come into the calculations.
If tomorrow, your course decided that they weren't going to use CR-Par, would your course suddenly become 8 shots easier? No, you'd keep scoring the same gross scores and your handicap wouldn't change. You wouldn't expect to be allowed to shoot a further 8 shots over par and have your handicap not change.
I hope that has cleared things up some more?
If your course uses CR-Par, it means the playing handicap they give you is relative to, and to be added to, par. If they don't, the playing handicap they give you is to be added to CR. That is the only difference it makes, because all the calculations to give you the differentials are the same regardless.
If your course uses CR-Par, it means the playing handicap they give you is relative to, and to be added to, par. If they don't, the playing handicap they give you is to be added to CR. That is the only difference it makes, because all the calculations to give you the differentials are the same regardless.
Your index travels with you, as it's designed to. You used the example of you going to Painswick and getting 8 extra shots - by that same logic, no one from Painswick would ever come to your course, it would be impossible for them to score well! It should be clear to see (again, not trying to be patronising!) that this obviously can't be the case. I could tell you your playing handicap was 50 for the day if I wanted to - but as long as I'm doing the differential calculations correctly after the round, it makes no difference. You'll get the same HI out at the end.
For what it's worth, I am fully behind all courses using CR-Par because it makes no difference behind the scenes and yet makes the handicap act much more like people are expecting it to, i.e. be relative to par.
No. It is best to start with the CR. That gives a better idea. As a generality, courses with a high CR very rarely have a low slope and vice versa.
Universal
I thought so but couldn’t find it anywhere.
Are you also swango?First of all, thank you for assuming that would be a disservice to me
Let's assume that you are a member of two identical courses, right down to individual blades of grass, and one is in a CR-Par territory and one isn't. Because the courses are identical, they'll have identical ratings, and your HI will obviously carry between both.
Let's say that the course follows Painswick's yellow ratings of SR=105 and CR=63.9, par=72. We'll assume that your HI is a nice round 15.
Forgetting about par for a minute, if you shoot 85, you will get a differential of 113/105*(85-63.9) = 22.07, regardless of which version of the course you're playing, because the ratings are identical. Notice that your HI isn't included anywhere in that calculation.
Now, when you step on the tee of the CR-Par course, you'll be told that you have a course handicap of 15*105/113 + (63.9 - 72) = 5.8.
On the non-CR-Par course, you'll be told that you have a playing handicap of 15*105/113 = 13.9.
But we know these courses are identical, so this can't possibly cause a problem, or the sums wouldn't work!
What they are saying is as follows:
* The CR-Par course is saying that you have to score 5.8 over par, or 77.8, to score a differential of 15.
* The non-CR-Par course is saying that you have to score 13.9 over CR, or (funnily enough) 77.8, to score a differential of 15.
The CR-Par has just made things easier for you to relate to on the course - virtually everyone compares their score to par as they go round. Notice above that the calculation for differentials involves CR-Par regardless of whether the course includes it in your CH or not.
The point I am trying to make is that you (and I, and rulefan, and Voyager in your example) have a hadicap of ~15 because that is the average of the best 8 of our last 20 differentials, and it does not matter which course we scored them at. The calculation is the same regardless of what we're told our playing handicap is, because the playing handicap doesn't come into the calculations.
If tomorrow, your course decided that they weren't going to use CR-Par, would your course suddenly become 8 shots easier? No, you'd keep scoring the same gross scores and your handicap wouldn't change. You wouldn't expect to be allowed to shoot a further 8 shots over par and have your handicap not change.
I hope that has cleared things up some more?
think you got a bite 
