Club comps

[GB72]

There must be a reason that the ladies do not want to play. Are they being made to feel welcome and part of the club. Was certainly not the case at my old club. I would not want to play with some of the comments made by male members when ladies were on the tee ahead. The club was getting better with having mixed comps, the attitude of members was not

Thing is, weekends are peak times for working people of both sexes and competitions should not be closed to anyone. If you want to be equal but segregated, men's comp on Saturday morning and reserve the tee for a ladies comp on Sunday morning and have a midweek men's comp as compensation for ladies day. Fair to everyone then.

 

[clubchamp98]

The tees have nothing to do with it as the red tees will have their own SSS, they could still have their own Comp on the same day, just like at Woodhall when we can choose to play off the yellows of whites on Comp day.

There’s also adjustments that can be done with courtesy shots if they played off a Same tee, so, the main reason is most, not all, don’t want to play amongst the men.

The tees do have a lot to do with it.
If the women played off the whites apart from one girl they would have no chance.
If everyone played off the yellows apart from one girl they would have no chance.
If all the men played off the reds the women would never win a thing.
True equality IS not wanted by the women. They are always the ones who say no.
Everyone off the same tees ,same h cap limit that’s equal.

 

[clubchamp98]

There must be a reason that the ladies do not want to play. Are they being made to feel welcome and part of the club. Was certainly not the case at my old club. I would not want to play with some of the comments made by male members when ladies were on the tee ahead. The club was getting better with having mixed comps, the attitude of members was not

Thing is, weekends are peak times for working people of both sexes and competitions should not be closed to anyone. If you want to be equal but segregated, men's comp on Saturday morning and reserve the tee for a ladies comp on Sunday morning and have a midweek men's comp as compensation for ladies day. Fair to everyone then.

The women don’t want to .
Can’t put it any other way.

 

[GB72]

The women don’t want to .
Can’t put it any other way.

Have they been asked why though.

 

[Slab]

So you would scrap ladies day then?

It’s this that always gets asked when ladies ask to play on Saturdays which are primarily the men’s competition day, but every clubs ladies section that I know from reading many articles that voted on it, did not want to surrender their ladies day, so, you can’t really have a restriction on a ladies day where men can’t play but then demand to play on the Saturday in their day, can you?

It either has to be a fully open 7-day membership with no category restrictions or the current status quo of ladies and men’s separate Comp days.

I’ve been at a club where there were a few ladies that wanted to play on Saturdays and the club gave them an hour slot, bug only 2 ladies took it up after all the huffing & puffing, and after 2 months, it was removed.

There’s no easy answer and I think it’s up to each individual club to make a decision, I don’t think it will ever be a national decision, there’s too many ladies that won’t play amongst men and won’t surrender there day.

Re the bold and just for discussion; Why Not?

What would be so wrong in ladies having a booked tee for a few hours midweek and being included in weekend comps? I doubt anyone would disagree they've had the short end of the stick for a fair few generations, would it be such a travesty if it 'appeared' marginally in their favour for once?

(I say 'appeared' because just opening up what has traditionally been a men only comp to allow ladies to play concurrently, isn't the same as having a comp that was intentionally set up to be a mixed comp)

 

[Fish]

The tees do have a lot to do with it.
If the women played off the whites apart from one girl they would have no chance.
If everyone played off the yellows apart from one girl they would have no chance.
If all the men played off the reds the women would never win a thing.
True equality IS not wanted by the women. They are always the ones who say no.
Everyone off the same tees ,same h cap limit that’s equal.

Are you saying that if their handicap for an example is currently 18, obviously based on the current ladies/red tees, you expect, in the name of true equality (whatever that means) for them to play off the whites off the same handicap?

If you do, then you have no understanding of SSS or the WHS to be introduced later in the year.

If you don’t, then clearly you haven’t read my previous post thoroughly outlining the shot adjustments they’d receive.

 

[Doh]

All our comps are open to anyone to play, the only distinction is comps at the weekend are only open to seven day members.

 

[PaulS]

Re the bold and just for discussion; Why Not?

What would be so wrong in ladies having a booked tee for a few hours midweek and being included in weekend comps? I doubt anyone would disagree they've had the short end of the stick for a fair few generations, would it be such a travesty if it 'appeared' marginally in their favour for once?

(I say 'appeared' because just opening up what has traditionally been a men only comp to allow ladies to play concurrently, isn't the same as having a comp that was intentionally set up to be a mixed comp)

It’s not really equality then if you allow one section full access of the course for 7 days and another for 6 days when they both pay the same money.

Golf has focused a lot on getting working ladies and young girls into the game , to do that clubs have removed historic restrictions at weekends and provided a platform for those demographics to join and enjoy golf. Many clubs now have people that WFH or who do shift so weekdays also work for them but they have restrictions in place with a day booked only for ladies - there is no day booked only for men , we are not allowed.

I have seen it at two clubs that the biggest issue is the historic lady members who refuse to be open to their “day” being more inclusive to the club so that everyone is a true 7 day member and everyone has the same access to the course.

Because of those issues clubs are stopping the comps for all and going back to the “Saturday for men” so they all become 6 day members.

The biggest hurdle in trying to bring in Ladies into the game and especially ladies who can only play at weekends is the current historic ladies section who don’t want to change 40 year old attitudes especially when clubs are trying to move away from them.

 

[Slab]

Yeah I get what your saying and again totally for a discussion

It’s not really equality then if you allow one section full access of the course for 7 days and another for 6 days when they both pay the same money.

It wasn't really equality for the last 150 years+ & until recently all arguments fell on deaf ears. But thinking on, so what if men are on the receiving end for a wee while, might lead us to have a greater appreciation? Would it really be catastrophic for men

Golf has focused a lot on getting working ladies and young girls into the game , to do that clubs have removed historic restrictions at weekends and provided a platform for those demographics to join and enjoy golf. Many clubs now have people that WFH or who do shift so weekdays also work for them but they have restrictions in place with a day booked only for ladies - there is no day booked only for men , we are not allowed.

Some clubs will have been better at making golf inclusive than others but as I say simply opening up an existing mens tee sheet to permit a lady to enter is not making the comp inclusive.There is a lot more to 'inclusive' golf than that
I'm lucky to play with blokes and ladies in social and comp golf and since I stopped solo golf years ago I haven't known any other kind of golf. I'll wager there's still a lot of blokes out there who's attitude hasn't changed despite the comp name on the tee sheet changing

I have seen it at two clubs that the biggest issue is the historic lady members who refuse to be open to their “day” being more inclusive to the club so that everyone is a true 7 day member and everyone has the same access to the course.

Maybe they are not yet comfortable or feel sufficiently included at the weekends to allow them to give up the midweek slot. Maybe they're worried that once it goes its gone and if they felt (or are made) less than welcome at weekends then they've no fallback? (or maybe you're right & they're just as bad as the their male counterparts mentioned above)

Because of those issues clubs are stopping the comps for all and going back to the “Saturday for men” so they all become 6 day members.

The biggest hurdle in trying to bring in Ladies into the game and especially ladies who can only play at weekends is the current historic ladies section who don’t want to change 40 year old attitudes especially when clubs are trying to move away from them.

Its taken mens golf hundreds of years to 'move away' from those very same attitudes, maybe men need to cut the ladies some slack? Maybe put some kind of future 'end date' in place for ladies only tee-times, does it really need to be a tit for tat & ladies tee given up immediately, are us men that inflexible ?

 

[LincolnShep]

We only have about a dozen women in the membership at my club. There is no organised Ladies Section, they don't run their own competitions and until recently I don't think they had asked or expected to join the men's competitions. Then one new member happened to mention that it was a shame that there were no comps for her and we (the committee) immediately made all of our competitions mixed. I am quite proud of that decision.

 

[rosie]

I only asked if anyone was playing qualifiers anytime soon ?

 

[LincolnShep]

I only asked if anyone was playing qualifiers anytime soon ?

It has rather drifted hasn't it!
To answer your question, we're organising non-qualifying comps. They've been fairly casual so far, no entry fee and just a bottle for the winner. We've had one Betterball Stableford and there's a Pairs (obvs!) Texas Scramble this weekend. Qualifiers will resume as soon as EG give the go ahead.

 

[clubchamp98]

Have they been asked why though.

I can’t get a reason for things off my own wife.
Imagine asking 50 women.
Seriously though I have heard some of them say “ men hit it longer and it puts them off”
Very similar to a high handicap player being intimidated by low men.
They still segregate themselves in the clubhouse as well ,and the only time they come in the bar is with their husbands.
It would make a good study for a phycologist.

 

[clubchamp98]

Are you saying that if their handicap for an example is currently 18, obviously based on the current ladies/red tees, you expect, in the name of true equality (whatever that means) for them to play off the whites off the same handicap?

If you do, then you have no understanding of SSS or the WHS to be introduced later in the year.

If you don’t, then clearly you haven’t read my previous post thoroughly outlining the shot adjustments they’d receive.

I understand the SSS.
My point is true equality means the same tees.
So ladies h caps would rise to adjust to those tees
But it would ruin their game going to 6500yds just like 7400 yds would for most men.

It’s not going to happen as we both know the ladies don’t want to.
And most men still don’t like mixed comps( at mine anyway if you listen to the comments)

 

[clubchamp98]

I only asked if anyone was playing qualifiers anytime soon ?

My club has cancelled all knockouts , and all comps until July.
It will be assessed then.
If they can get the majors played then that might be a bonus.

 

[Crazyface]

I fail to see why most club comps can't be open to men, women and juniors who've reached a certain level.
If a person works Monday to Friday and pays full fees, they shouldn't be barred from playing at a weekend just because they're female.
I also believe each section should have a certain amount of their own comps too, BUT if a men's comp is on a weekend morning there should be tee times free for full-paying 7 day members who aren't eligible to play.
Not easy in winter, but it's the 21st Century.

Ladies play off red tee that never move. Men play off white tee that can be, and are at my place, vastly different. To prove it. My first year at my place last year, Captains day, ladies were playing, eight of them. They took 2nd / 3rd and fouth in a tough windy day. Luckilly one young lad managed a 43 pointer, lord knows how, when the rest of us men got less than 34 points. So unless the ladies were playing in their own competition on that day, but could mix in with the mens tee times (good idea this) I'd say Hell No to ladies playing in the same comp.

 

[rulefan]

Ladies play off red tee that never move. Men play off white tee that can be, and are at my place, vastly different. To prove it. My first year at my place last year, Captains day, ladies were playing, eight of them. They took 2nd / 3rd and fouth in a tough windy day. Luckilly one young lad managed a 43 pointer, lord knows how, when the rest of us men got less than 34 points. So unless the ladies were playing in their own competition on that day, but could mix in with the mens tee times (good idea this) I'd say Hell No to ladies playing in the same comp.

Each set of tees has a gender specific SSS (or Course Rating and Slope after WHS).
But it seems that the ladies were just better players on the day.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I know, my fault sorry. Should have realised the question would trigger some of them.

So much BS posted too, very depressing reading for someone who just thinks her £1400 should allow her to play on either of the two days a week she doesn’t work.

Gave up Conwy membership for one of those reasons, even though the Wife really liked the course. We would have upgraded to full members, but didn't as Saturday was mens only comp(apart from late tee times in summer), so we left and I politely informed them of why they had lost us three(wife/son(junior)/me) as members. Didn't even receive a courtesy of a reply iirc and they actually cancelled my online tee time booking login about a month before they should have(so had to get that reinstated). Mental, haven't been back since as a result.

Thank goodness not all golf clubs are like that and there are clubs that allow access to tee times to everyone.

 

[azazel]

Ladies play off red tee that never move. Men play off white tee that can be, and are at my place, vastly different. To prove it. My first year at my place last year, Captains day, ladies were playing, eight of them. They took 2nd / 3rd and fouth in a tough windy day. Luckilly one young lad managed a 43 pointer, lord knows how, when the rest of us men got less than 34 points. So unless the ladies were playing in their own competition on that day, but could mix in with the mens tee times (good idea this) I'd say Hell No to ladies playing in the same comp.

Luckily? Aye, can't have those pesky women winning competitions.

 

[jim8flog]

I would be interested to hear as well. Being back playing golf has boosted my mum no end and would be upset if her club closed off the tees at weekends for men only competitions. She really needs her golf at the moment as has missed so many things that would have been family time over lockdown that it is good to hear her happy again.

Bit surprised by the fact that a club closes tee times to women for run of the mill club comps in the first place. Where I play there is a ladies comp running concurrently with the men's comp even when there is major men's trophy comp being run except for the club Championships, Opens and similar.