CH difference for tees

[VVega]

After the April update I noticed the difference between CH from the short (Red) tees and Long (White) tees has become huge. E.g. an 18 HI receives 22 shots from the Long tees and 14 shots from the Short ones.

Yes, the short tees are shorter but surely the difficulty of the course is not just in its distance. It is still a full length course, you still need to hit the greens and putt.

It certainly feels to me against the idea of multi-tee comps as it makes no sense to loose 8 shots for a slightly shorter course. It would certainly not suite the shorter hitters better which is a pity, imo.

What’s the difference between Short(formerly known as Ladies, not Junior)/Long tees on your course?

 

[KenL]

Not sure about red tees, but for my current 3.6 index I'm 5 off whites and 3 off yellows.

About 600 yards difference.

 

[Slab]

Somewhere between 3&4 shots per tee spacing at home club (depending on the index decimal)

Roughly it's about 500yrds spacing between each tee

I actually think it's nowhere near enough shots between the two tees I play from, on average i score about 8 shots different so it's a no brainer to move forward when the opportunity comes up

But I also know the reason for my score diff is due to my distance off the tee, with the back tees making a course I only get to go for GIR maybe 3 times (excl par 3's)
That number changes to up to 9 gir chances going one box forward

 

[Voyager EMH]

HI 4.3

Whites 6
Yellows 4
Reds 3

But off reds the par is reduced by two shots. Two of the par 5s become par 4s.
In a choice of tee comp, I am

Whites 6
Yellows 4
Reds 1

 

[BiMGuy]

Getting 2 shots off the front tees feels a bit mean

 

[rulefan]

After the April update I noticed the difference between CH from the short (Red) tees and Long (White) tees has become huge. E.g. an 18 HI receives 22 shots from the Long tees and 14 shots from the Short ones.

Yes, the short tees are shorter but surely the difficulty of the course is not just in its distance. It is still a full length course, you still need to hit the greens and putt.

It certainly feels to me against the idea of multi-tee comps as it makes no sense to loose 8 shots for a slightly shorter course. It would certainly not suite the shorter hitters better which is a pity, imo.

What’s the difference between Short(formerly known as Ladies, not Junior)/Long tees on your course?

Had you noticed that the formula now includes (CR - Par) ?

 

[jim8flog]

Worth remembering that if a male player plays off the short tees a lot of the obstacles such as bunkers, carry for dog legs is not a consideration for them which will impact the course rating.

 

[jim8flog]

White​

M

71

70.8

​

128

Red​

M

68

67.4

​

123

Not a big difference
Difficulty difference for me I can now reach 3 fairways which are a struggle off the whites
The SI 2 is now reachable in reg
On 3 holes now much easier to get past the angle of the dogleg
on 2 holes bunkers are taken out of play
2 par 4 holes are considerably easier because of where a tee shot will finish - e,g on one hole I would be able to easily get to the top of a hill off the reds.

 

[rulefan]

After the April update I noticed the difference between CH from the short (Red) tees and Long (White) tees has become huge. E.g. an 18 HI receives 22 shots from the Long tees and 14 shots from the Short ones.

Yes, the short tees are shorter but surely the difficulty of the course is not just in its distance. It is still a full length course, you still need to hit the greens and putt.

It certainly feels to me against the idea of multi-tee comps as it makes no sense to loose 8 shots for a slightly shorter course. It would certainly not suite the shorter hitters better which is a pity, imo.

What’s the difference between Short(formerly known as Ladies, not Junior)/Long tees on your course?

What is the Length, Course Rating and Par of each set of tees?

 

[VVega]

What is the Length, Course Rating and Par of each set of tees?

i understand that it is what it is as per ratings and regulations. My point was that subjectively it’s not 37% easier which what the shots difference would imply.

 

[rulefan]

i understand that it is what it is as per ratings and regulations. My point was that subjectively it’s not 37% easier which what the shots difference would imply.

Maybe but rating is not subjective, it is objective. Rating is based on 'model' players who have specific characteristics; they cannot be based on all players with similar handicaps

Players with different strengths and weaknesses can find individual courses more or less challenging. Long hitters, poor chippers. Excellent putters, dreadful bunker play.

Incidentally, the Slopes may well help explain the disparity.

 

[VVega]

Maybe but rating is not subjective, it is objective. Rating is based on 'model' players who have specific characteristics; they cannot be based on all players with similar handicaps

Players with different strengths and weaknesses can find individual courses more or less challenging. Long hitters, poor chippers. Excellent putters, dreadful bunker play.

Incidentally, the Slopes may well help explain the disparity.

FWIW, it’s 72.5/133/6719 vs 67.6/115/5570.

Model golfer or not, personally I can’t imagine giving up 8 shots for a 20% shorter course.

 

[Steven Rules]

That's about 64 yards difference in course length per hole. For me, that's about the difference between hitting a pitching wedge versus a 4 or 5 iron into every green. I'd say 8 shots seems like pretty good value.

 

[doublebogey7]

FWIW, it’s 72.5/133/6719 vs 67.6/115/5570.

Model golfer or not, personally I can’t imagine giving up 8 shots for a 20% shorter course.

So a 8.5% reduction of shots taken to match a net par of 72 over a course that is 20% shorter. Seems to me you ought to be losing more shots.

 

[VVega]

So a 8.5% reduction of shots taken to match a net par of 72 over a course that is 20% shorter. Seems to me you ought to be losing more shots.

One of us having a bit of a problem with maths? 8/22 = 36% reduction in shots, am I missing sth?

 

[VVega]

HI 4.3

Whites 6
Yellows 4
Reds 3

But off reds the par is reduced by two shots. Two of the par 5s become par 4s.
In a choice of tee comp, I am

Whites 6
Yellows 4
Reds 1

So would you choose to play off Reds with 1 shot or Whites/Yellow with 6/4?

 

[VVega]

That's about 64 yards difference in course length per hole. For me, that's about the difference between hitting a pitching wedge versus a 4 or 5 iron into every green. I'd say 8 shots seems like pretty good value.

Averaging is a bit misleading though, in practice you won’t be playing 4/5 iron into the green on every hole from the whites, would you? Equally, extra shots give you the opportunity to play an extra shot “for free” into those longer holes.

 

[VVega]

As a final thought, it seems the majority responses are saying it’s OK and would still be attractive for them to play of the Short tees even with such a drastic reduction of shots.

Fair enough, though I wonder how many would actually do it when they play. I would bet a very few if any at our club will play these tees now, which is a shame.

 

[Voyager EMH]

So would you choose to play off Reds with 1 shot or Whites/Yellow with 6/4?

At the moment, off HI 4.3 then white tees is the sensible choice.

However, as my HI changes, so should my choice of tee in a choice-of-tee individual strokeplay, in order for me to be as competitive as possible.

These are my playing handicaps for individual strokeplay for various HI from the three tees.



If I drop by 0.1 then white tees give me only one shot more than yellows and yellow becomes the best choice.
If I go up to 4.7 then red tees become the best choice.
The above table highlights which tee is the best choice depending on current HI.

However, @IanM was right - I need to get out a bit more.

 

[Steven Rules]

Averaging is a bit misleading though, in practice you won’t be playing 4/5 iron into the green on every hole from the whites, would you?

It's an average. Some will be shorter, some will be longer. Mix up the distances but the same principle will apply.

Drivable par 4 vs driver/sand wedge. Sand wedge vs 8 iron. 5 iron vs 5 wood.