Ban Texas Scrambles?

[PaulMdj]

The thing with most comps is that you want to have at least a feeling of a chance that if you do well you may get amongst the prizes

Looking at the recent scramble

For us to win or challenge the team I play in would have had to score 19 under par gross to come second

We had a HC allowance of 2 - the winners 18 and won by a fair distance

Nobody forced you to enter the Scramble though, you know the rules and allowances before you enter, plus, you know the likelihood of some teams getting loads of shots.

I enter all ours and hope for a day in the sun, but I don’t get bothered when we don’t win.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So what is the ultimate texas scramble team made up of? One really low handicap and 3 high-ish handicaps?

I'd say one low, 2 mid, 1 high. Maybe even 2 low, 2 mid.

It's the inconsistencies of the high player that kills them. Great if they have a good day but clearly that doesn't happen too often. Scrambles, for me, are about creating birdie chances. High h/c don't do that often enough, certainly not enough to be better than the allowance they bring with them.

I suspect your Saturday grouping would make a pretty strong scramble team. I can be the hacker to make up the 4

 

[Orikoru]

So what is the ultimate texas scramble team made up of? One really low handicap and 3 high-ish handicaps?

Other way round probably. Couple of good, low players, maybe one mid player who's streaky good, and one guy off 45-ish to get the other lads some shots. Just got to try and take the 45's tee shots in early when he hits a decent one.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Nobody forced you to enter the Scramble though, you know the rules and allowances before you enter, plus, you know the likelihood of some teams getting loads of shots.

I enter all ours and hope for a day in the sun, but I don’t get bothered when we don’t win.

It’s not about being bothered about winning

Scrambles make it easier for people to score birdies etc but the HC allowances before WHS allowed it to be better balanced and our winners were spread across the board

Now it’s only high HCs that win ours to point this season is the first team we have multiple gaps in tee sheet for entries where as before they were full within 30 mins

People are not bothering to enter anymore when there is no chance for them to challenge for a prize

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So what is the ultimate texas scramble team made up of? One really low handicap and 3 high-ish handicaps?

Right now our winners are all 4 players with a Handicap of over 15

Teams with a HC allowance of over 10 are winning

 

[Orikoru]

It’s not about being bothered about winning

Scrambles make it easier for people to score birdies etc but the HC allowances before WHS allowed it to be better balanced and our winners were spread across the board

Now it’s only high HCs that win ours to point this season is the first team we have multiple gaps in tee sheet for entries where as before they were full within 30 mins

People are not bothering to enter anymore when there is no chance for them to challenge for a prize

That's sad that the chance to win prizes outweighs the chance to have a laugh in their priorities then. I don't believe scramble prizes should ever be that great anyway, that's not what it's about. A bottle of wine and a box of balls should be enough.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Most of our scrambles are social events and so prizes usually wine or choccie so not too excited about them and less so about worrying about handicaps and higher handicaps being at an advantage (or not depending on your point of view). If I play it is usually a pre-cursor to another event like our annual presentation event so I'd play simply to have a few holes and maybe try a few things. Never take them seriously

 

[RichA]

So what is the ultimate texas scramble team made up of? One really low handicap and 3 high-ish handicaps?

There are different types of high handicapper.
A team with one or two of the type who are long off the tee, can chip and putt but have a high HI because they're useless from the fairway will do very well, in my own experience. Matched with a couple of better players who's approach play is strong and they'll clean up.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

That's sad that the chance to win prizes outweighs the chance to have a laugh in their priorities then. I don't believe scramble prizes should ever be that great anyway, that's not what it's about. A bottle of wine and a box of balls should be enough.

People will still enter for a laugh but then they can also do that outside any competition which they may do every week

We have one as a board competition that’s been about for a long time

It’s still a competition at times , it’s the same as playing football in a team , you play to try and compete , that’s no different with club comps - and people don’t pay entry money to just have a laugh - still got to have some level of competition

 

[PaulMdj]

It’s not about being bothered about winning

Scrambles make it easier for people to score birdies etc but the HC allowances before WHS allowed it to be better balanced and our winners were spread across the board

Now it’s only high HCs that win ours to point this season is the first team we have multiple gaps in tee sheet for entries where as before they were full within 30 mins

People are not bothering to enter anymore when there is no chance for them to challenge for a prize

I don’t fully get that tbh, re the bit in bold, it that was fact 90% of people wouldn’t enter any comps ever.

I’m off 11 of our whites, way too high to compete against single figure golfers, too low to stand a chance against the high handicappers.

I entered all comps prior to WHS and continue to enter them all now, it’s £2.00 for us.

I have 100% never entered a comp thinking I could win, play well, put a great score in, absolutely, but I don’t enter any comp to be disappointed if I don’t win.

It’s being with mates, having a laugh, and, if one or 2 of our 4 Ball get amongst the prizes then it’s a bonus.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I don’t fully get that tbh, re the bit in bold, it that was fact 90% of people wouldn’t enter any comps ever.

I’m off 11 of our whites, way too high to compete against single figure golfers, too low to stand a chance against the high handicappers.

I entered all comps prior to WHS and continue to enter them all now, it’s £2.00 for us.

I have 100% never entered a comp thinking I could win, play well, put a great score in, absolutely, but I don’t enter any comp to be disappointed if I don’t win.

It’s being with mates, having a laugh, and, if one or 2 of our 4 Ball get amongst the prizes then it’s a bonus.

Again it’s the middle ground

It’s not just about winning - it’s about competing as fairly as possible and getting close to one of the multiple prize that someone can potentially win - divisions 1-3 or 5 in our case

Clubs put on competitions for a reason - it’s not just social , laugh with mates etc - some still want to have a level of competition and then some want to have a chance of challenging

 

[Slab]

So what is the ultimate texas scramble team made up of? One really low handicap and 3 high-ish handicaps?

Good question, there's probably a formula for the optimum make-up/mix

________________


Using friendship is absolutely the best way to build a scramble team but if zero thought has been given to building a winning team it can be no surprise when that team doesn't win

 

[wjemather]

Ohh, and I don't believe the document explains anywhere that 3 and 4 ball team handicaps are not equitable? So, our club seems to just have 3 ball teams in a mainly 4 ball event, because the system allows it. Yet, I worked out that if one 3 ball team had an extra player join them, with a lower handicap than the current 3 players, not only would that team get an extra player and a better player, they'd also get a higher handicap

We've covered this before. Allowances for different formats are not designed to work together in the same comp. All teams must have the same number of players. One way of dealing with short-handed teams is to allocate a ghost player with a handicap that gives the desired uplift in PH (we use 24).

 

[PaulMdj]

Again it’s the middle ground

It’s not just about winning - it’s about competing as fairly as possible and getting close to one of the multiple prize that someone can potentially win - divisions 1-3 or 5 in our case

Clubs put on competitions for a reason - it’s not just social , laugh with mates etc - some still want to have a level of competition and then some want to have a chance of challenging

Don’t get me wrong, I’m putting in 100% everytime I play, but that’s for me and my handicap, if a prize came along with it, fantastic.

I just don’t have enough control over the field to enter with any preconceptions.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m putting in 100% everytime I play, but that’s for me and my handicap, if a prize came along with it, fantastic.

I just don’t have enough control over the field to enter with any preconceptions.

It’s not about preconceptions

We still enter even though we know even if we birdie every single hole the chances of us getting in the top 5 will be very small

With the old 10 or 20% allowance that clubs did you know that most had a chance when they teed off - that doesn’t happen now and that’s why someone aren’t bothering

Same with Greensomes etc

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Other way round probably. Couple of good, low players, maybe one mid player who's streaky good, and one guy off 45-ish to get the other lads some shots. Just got to try and take the 45's tee shots in early when he hits a decent one.

Most scrambles have a top limit for h/c, say 20. Then you get your %. A 45 h/c will only bring you about 2 shots max. Not that exciting when you think about it.

 

[PaulMdj]

It’s not about preconceptions

We still enter even though we know even if we birdie every single hole the chances of us getting in the top 5 will be very small

With the old 10 or 20% allowance that clubs did you know that most had a chance when they teed off - that doesn’t happen now and that’s why someone aren’t bothering

Same with Greensomes etc

Under the old system Scrambles could be played with Max Shots, we had one with Max 8, a lot of the high hanficappers didn’t enter because they stood chance against the right mix of low Cat 1 & Cat 2 teams.

I totally agree the new allowances have skewed it the other way and needs looking at, however, I don’t think you’ll ever get to the point that makes everyone happy or works for every combination of handicaps.

The problem, imo, with WHS is that it has affected the old Cat 1 and + golfers more than any other category.

Sadly, the mindset of those golfers will have to change before WHS does.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We are known to do it as something different in our roll ups if the course is down to 9 holes as something different. Random draw. No-one takes it seriously to be hones I don't get why people are that hung up on the format. It is a mickey mouse thing where essentially you get 4 goes. If you can't make birdies then you are never going to win

 

[Orikoru]

Most scrambles have a top limit for h/c, say 20. Then you get your %. A 45 h/c will only bring you about 2 shots max. Not that exciting when you think about it.

What? Never heard of that. My club's scrambles are just 25% of lowest, 20% of next lowest, 15% next lowest and 10% of highest. So a 40 handicapper will add 4 shots to your team's handicap.

As @RichA said above though, it's more about why people are a certain handicap than what handicap they are. If you have a bunch of mid handicappers with one main weakness each, you'll clean up. You could have a guy off 16 who bombs it off the tee but has no short game - he'd be very useful. Another player off 18 who can only hit it 200 off the tee, but is absolutely mustard around the greens and putting - he'll be useful as well. Streaky players as well who happen to have one of their good days.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Under the old system Scrambles could be played with Max Shots, we had one with Max 8, a lot of the high hanficappers didn’t enter because they stood chance against the right mix of low Cat 1 & Cat 2 teams.

I totally agree the new allowances have skewed it the other way and needs looking at, however, I don’t think you’ll ever get to the point that makes everyone happy or works for every combination of handicaps.

The problem, imo, with WHS is that it has affected the old Cat 1 and + golfers more than any other category.

Sadly, the mindset of those golfers will have to change before WHS does.

We didn’t apply any Max shots as it didn’t make it fair to everyone

Looking at the 6 scrambles before the changes

These Teams won

HCs - 3 , 6 , 9 and 12
12, 13 , 15 and 20
3 , 6 , 18 and 22
1, 1 , 6 and 15
1, 8 , 14 and 17
16 , 19 , 19 and 21

No one run away with them and 3 of them won by .3 or something close to that

Some has put in a request to go back to the previous allowances