Ban Texas Scrambles?

[GreiginFife]

Yet they have created 4 pages of discussion on here already plus on the Facebook , Twitter pages etc - job done

So just like how Talksport operates?

 

[Swango1980]

No, totally disagree. I absolutely don't need a feeling that I may get amongst the prizes - that was my point. You might have this feeling, but I don't. My golf mindset has changed completely.

Fantastic for the confirmation. Next time we play together, no handicaps. We just play match play off scratch

 

[Neilds]

Seems a bit like a lot of people's views nowadays - I don't like something, so it should be banned. No tolerance for others that might like it, I am more important than others so ban it. I know I could easily avoid it, but that is not the point, ban it right now.

 

[Swango1980]

So what is the ultimate texas scramble team made up of? One really low handicap and 3 high-ish handicaps?

Perhaps 2 really low handicappers, so they can back each other up. Then two massive handicappers, who are really only there for their handicap, and maybe the odd lucky time they hole a putt. Also want to make sure you can at least get in their drives, based on any limits set on that.

Either that, or 3 low handicappers for that extra back up, and a very high handicapper for their handicap. Not done a comparison on what the team handicap difference could be in those 2 set ups. But, whatever reduction in handicap the 3 low handicapper team get compared to the 2 low handicapper team, the question is does the 3rd low handicapper make up for that deficit in shots? Depends how consistent the initial 2 low handicappers are.

 

[Backache]

The problem is not the format, it's the mindset, and it applies to all formats to a greater or lesser extent. You could just play golf for your own pleasure and the challenge of trying to do your best. I only have a passing interest in who wins the competition or what the prizes are. I would be equally likely to enter a competition with no prizes, as one with huge prizes. When I'm playing with friends, we might have a the price of a coffee on the line but that's it. I will try to beat my friends, but I have no interest in how a load of strangers do in the same competition. If the game is making you stressed, it can't be fun and something must be done. You could choose not to enter scrambles, or you could enter but not care about the result.

I'm not sure why in amateur golf we need prizes of any sort other than a trophy , maybe a token sleeve of balls. and agree with much of your point for me it's largely me against the course.

The one format where I'm more interested in how I finish is matchplay because that's the point of it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Seems a bit like a lot of people's views nowadays - I don't like something, so it should be banned. No tolerance for others that might like it, I am more important than others so ban it. I know I could easily avoid it, but that is not the point, ban it right now.

I agree. I am not a fan but would play if I fancied it (usually a social event before another club event) but why would it be banned as I don't like it. Not a fan of foursome either but why would I even contemplate asking that to be be banned

 

[Swango1980]

I'm not sure why in amateur golf we need prizes of any sort other than a trophy , maybe a token sleeve of balls. and agree with much of your point for me it's largely me against the course.

The one format where I'm more interested in how I finish is matchplay because that's the point of it.

Would be an interesting experiment.

Run club competitions as we do now once every other week.

Then, on the other alternative week, run competitions with no prizes (except a name on an honours board, i.e. prestige), but also with no entry fee. Then, over an extended period of time, see if there is any pattern in the number of entrants in each

 

[wjemather]

The majority of competition entry fees are paid out in vouchers that feed back into the pro shop, and are a means of compensating for the time they spend operating the comps.

 

[RichA]

I'm not sure why in amateur golf we need prizes of any sort other than a trophy , maybe a token sleeve of balls. and agree with much of your point for me it's largely me against the course.

The one format where I'm more interested in how I finish is matchplay because that's the point of it.

Yep. I feel like the winning and losing of prizes is the root of a lot of people's gripes about handicaps, cheating and "fairness" (we're adults - we should know life isn't fair).
At my old club the only actual prizes were sleeves of balls or food vouchers for the christmas turkey trot.
It gets boring repeating myself but in a lifetime of competitive amateur sport I'd never really heard anyone moaning about prizes and cheating until I came on this golf forum.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Yep. I feel like the winning and losing of prizes is the root of a lot of people's gripes about handicaps, cheating and "fairness" (we're adults - we should know life isn't fair).
At my old club the only actual prizes were sleeves of balls or food vouchers for the christmas turkey trot.
It gets boring repeating myself but in a lifetime of competitive amateur sport I'd never really heard anyone moaning about prizes and cheating until I came on this golf forum.

Ironically the only cash involved at my club is for the sweepers which are divided into sections as the happy clappers suggest be the remedy, Trophies come with no cash

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

On weekday mornings, if it's not too crowded,
we can even do 2 V 2 V 2 scrambles with six players and three buggies.
[Or just 3 v 3, of course.]
You almost have to play with golf carts, however, so people can quickly pick up their unused balls before hitting.

















If it's not too crowded

 

[Swango1980]

Perhaps 2 really low handicappers, so they can back each other up. Then two massive handicappers, who are really only there for their handicap, and maybe the odd lucky time they hole a putt. Also want to make sure you can at least get in their drives, based on any limits set on that.

Either that, or 3 low handicappers for that extra back up, and a very high handicapper for their handicap. Not done a comparison on what the team handicap difference could be in those 2 set ups. But, whatever reduction in handicap the 3 low handicapper team get compared to the 2 low handicapper team, the question is does the 3rd low handicapper make up for that deficit in shots? Depends how consistent the initial 2 low handicappers are.

Just spent a bit of time comparing handicaps of 5 teams, where players either play off scratch or off 30.

Team 1: 30, 30, 30, 30: HCP = 21
Team 2: 0, 30, 30, 30: HCP = 14
Team 3: 0, 0, 30, 30: HCP = 8
Team 4: 0, 0, 0, 30: HCP = 3
Team 5: 0, 0, 0, 0: HCP = 0

So, in a general sense, do all teams have the same chance of winning? Not sure.

Team 1 will be very much dependent on the individual talents of the 4 very bad golfers. But, if they can generally keep at least one ball in play each time then I'd have thought a gross score around par still shouldn't be unreasonable? Will help if one or 2 of them hit a decent longer ball I suppose. If they shoot anything around par, then I think that rules out Team 5, as shooting 21 under par gross is a hell of a task.

I think Team 2 or 3 is where my money would be, especially if the scratch golfers are bang on it. But, that is assuming the 30 handicappers are genuine hackers. If Team 1 has players who can hit very good shots among the car crashes they have in individual golf, then perhaps it wouldn't be the biggest shock to see them shoot 3 or 4 under gross on a reasonably good day. That could get them to around a nett score of -25. Team 2 might have a chance of catching that, if the scratch player plays unbelievable and the other guys make some putts and hit some decent drives. But not sure Teams 3-5 would have much of a chance.

 

[mister v]

I like a texas scramble , its the only time i get to play most of my shots from the fairway. theres always that moment of hope when you shoot a 61 only to hear that there are some 58's already in........

 

[RichA]

Just spent a bit of time comparing handicaps of 5 teams, where players either play off scratch or off 30.

Team 1: 30, 30, 30, 30: HCP = 21
Team 2: 0, 30, 30, 30: HCP = 14
Team 3: 0, 0, 30, 30: HCP = 8
Team 4: 0, 0, 0, 30: HCP = 3
Team 5: 0, 0, 0, 0: HCP = 0

So, in a general sense, do all teams have the same chance of winning? Not sure.

Team 1 will be very much dependent on the individual talents of the 4 very bad golfers. But, if they can generally keep at least one ball in play each time then I'd have thought a gross score around par still shouldn't be unreasonable? Will help if one or 2 of them hit a decent longer ball I suppose. If they shoot anything around par, then I think that rules out Team 5, as shooting 21 under par gross is a hell of a task.

I think Team 2 or 3 is where my money would be, especially if the scratch golfers are bang on it. But, that is assuming the 30 handicappers are genuine hackers. If Team 1 has players who can hit very good shots among the car crashes they have in individual golf, then perhaps it wouldn't be the biggest shock to see them shoot 3 or 4 under gross on a reasonably good day. That could get them to around a nett score of -25. Team 2 might have a chance of catching that, if the scratch player plays unbelievable and the other guys make some putts and hit some decent drives. But not sure Teams 3-5 would have much of a chance.

Not sure.
I would have thought that 4 scratch golfers would expect to go around birdie-ing every other hole for -9.
4 x 30 handicappers aren't likely to do much better than half a dozen pars and 12 bogeys for... oh yeah -9.
I think it would be pretty tight.
Depends on the course and the failings of the 30 HIs. They only have to hit a couple of bunkers in their round and they're probably screwed.

 

[Orikoru]

Just spent a bit of time comparing handicaps of 5 teams, where players either play off scratch or off 30.

Team 1: 30, 30, 30, 30: HCP = 21
Team 2: 0, 30, 30, 30: HCP = 14
Team 3: 0, 0, 30, 30: HCP = 8
Team 4: 0, 0, 0, 30: HCP = 3
Team 5: 0, 0, 0, 0: HCP = 0

So, in a general sense, do all teams have the same chance of winning? Not sure.

Team 1 will be very much dependent on the individual talents of the 4 very bad golfers. But, if they can generally keep at least one ball in play each time then I'd have thought a gross score around par still shouldn't be unreasonable? Will help if one or 2 of them hit a decent longer ball I suppose. If they shoot anything around par, then I think that rules out Team 5, as shooting 21 under par gross is a hell of a task.

I think Team 2 or 3 is where my money would be, especially if the scratch golfers are bang on it. But, that is assuming the 30 handicappers are genuine hackers. If Team 1 has players who can hit very good shots among the car crashes they have in individual golf, then perhaps it wouldn't be the biggest shock to see them shoot 3 or 4 under gross on a reasonably good day. That could get them to around a nett score of -25. Team 2 might have a chance of catching that, if the scratch player plays unbelievable and the other guys make some putts and hit some decent drives. But not sure Teams 3-5 would have much of a chance.

Team 3 are the favourites for me! A good mix of two scratch players to dovetail each other, and a decent number of shots to play with.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Just spent a bit of time comparing handicaps of 5 teams, where players either play off scratch or off 30.

Team 1: 30, 30, 30, 30: HCP = 21
Team 2: 0, 30, 30, 30: HCP = 14
Team 3: 0, 0, 30, 30: HCP = 8
Team 4: 0, 0, 0, 30: HCP = 3
Team 5: 0, 0, 0, 0: HCP = 0

So, in a general sense, do all teams have the same chance of winning? Not sure.

Team 1 will be very much dependent on the individual talents of the 4 very bad golfers. But, if they can generally keep at least one ball in play each time then I'd have thought a gross score around par still shouldn't be unreasonable? Will help if one or 2 of them hit a decent longer ball I suppose. If they shoot anything around par, then I think that rules out Team 5, as shooting 21 under par gross is a hell of a task.

I think Team 2 or 3 is where my money would be, especially if the scratch golfers are bang on it. But, that is assuming the 30 handicappers are genuine hackers. If Team 1 has players who can hit very good shots among the car crashes they have in individual golf, then perhaps it wouldn't be the biggest shock to see them shoot 3 or 4 under gross on a reasonably good day. That could get them to around a nett score of -25. Team 2 might have a chance of catching that, if the scratch player plays unbelievable and the other guys make some putts and hit some decent drives. But not sure Teams 3-5 would have much of a chance.

In my general experience of Scrambles, Team 1 would struggle to play anywhere near par, 8 over and they have played exceptionally well. I take it we are going on 6000+ yards courses with a couple or more 400+ par 4s

 

[RichA]

My old club only did 3 player scrambles. We won the last one with a makeup of 5, 16, 16 giving us a PH of 7. Gross score 66.
I don't remember a team of high handicappers or low handicappers ever winning one at ours.
You need at least one player in the team who can consistently hit a decent ball.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Not sure.
I would have thought that 4 scratch golfers would expect to go around birdie-ing every other hole for -9.
4 x 30 handicappers aren't likely to do much better than half a dozen pars and 12 bogeys for... oh yeah -9.
I think it would be pretty tight.
Depends on the course and the failings of the 30 HIs. They only have to hit a couple of bunkers in their round and they're probably screwed.

Had a look at recent results and looked a team of Low HCs

They got 1 shot ( 0, 1 ,1 and 2 HCs )

They had a gross 52

19 under - they came 5th by 4 shots

The winners had 14 shots and had a net 48

 

[Orikoru]

My old club only did 3 player scrambles. We won the last one with a makeup of 5, 16, 16 giving us a PH of 7. Gross score 66.
I don't remember a team of high handicappers or low handicappers ever winning one at ours.
You need at least one player in the team who can consistently hit a decent ball.

One of our scrambles this year was won by a team of 26.0, 28.0, 28.0 and 28.0. It was a charity memorial event though, and I don't think these guys were members, so there's a fair chance the handicaps were made up. Particularly since they all end in 0 which feels unlikely.

 

[RichA]

Had a look at recent results and looked a team of Low HCs

They got 1 shot ( 0, 1 ,1 and 2 HCs )

They had a gross 52

19 under - they came 5th by 4 shots

The winners had 14 shots and had a net 48

Wow. Not doubting you but all those scores would have me thinking there was some shenanigans afoot.
I know it's only ever a 2 person scramble, but when you watch Bryson and another pro playing a scramble off the forward tees with him knocking in 30 foot putts and hitting 320+ drives on manicured courses they're only making low 50s.
When I read stuff like that I can understand why some people dislike them.
They were always really closely contested at my old club. The day we shot 66 was the first time I'd seen any gross under par scores and it was all the top 3.