Worst Ryder Cup Captains?

[Orikoru]

Yes I watched it. It was beautiful.

I just think blaming the captain is an easy scapegoat. I'm sure they must have put some thought into the pairings, it's not the sole reason they got battered.

I agree to some extent. Of course there are things they could have done better - as we've touch upon, the common accusation is that Europe use more data and statistics in matching their pairings. But the course set-up stuff is overstated this time around I think. Nowadays both sides are pretty similar in skillset, play their golf on the same courses, so it's quite hard to set-up the course in a way that benefits one team over the other, I would say. Ultimately, the players just have to turn up and play well. USA did that but only on Sunday when it was too late. I did feel like we were the stronger team on paper, so it was just a case of that vs. how much the home advantage would give them.

 

[sunshine]

It is a little bit of a myth that Tiger was rubbish in Ryder cups, in 2 of them he was the top points scorer.

Thank you. There is some nuance to understand Tiger's RC record.

First, we need to discount 2012 and 2018, when he was injured and out of form and a shadow of the golfer he used to be. Those events heavily skew his record.

During the prime Tiger years he was very strong, but playing in losing teams. Maybe he found it difficult to raise his game when partnered with guys like Chris Riley and Steve Pate? Maybe in those matches he played well but individually could not compete when pairings like Donald/Garcia dovetailed nicely? I didn't really watch the RC in those days.

His singles record is excellent, so he obviously brought some form into the event. Even in 2012 he would have won his singles match but sportingly offered Molinari a half after Europe had clinched the overall win.

 

[sunshine]

I agree to some extent. Of course there are things they could have done better - as we've touch upon, the common accusation is that Europe use more data and statistics in matching their pairings. But the course set-up stuff is overstated this time around I think. Nowadays both sides are pretty similar in skillset, play their golf on the same courses, so it's quite hard to set-up the course in a way that benefits one team over the other, I would say. Ultimately, the players just have to turn up and play well. USA did that but only on Sunday when it was too late. I did feel like we were the stronger team on paper, so it was just a case of that vs. how much the home advantage would give them.

I think USA had a bad first day, but were pretty good on days 2 and 3.
Europe were excellent of day 1, unbelievably brilliant on day 2, and then ran out of gas on day 3.

 

[Orikoru]

I think USA had a bad first day, but were pretty good on days 2 and 3.
Europe were excellent of day 1, unbelievably brilliant on day 2, and then ran out of gas on day 3.

Yeah, that's fair. The Saturday foursomes scores were something else.
Aberg/Fitz -2
Young/Bryson -6

Tommy/Rory -6
Morikawa/English -3

Hatton/Rahm -5
Xander/Cantlay -2

Vic & Bob -6
Scheffler/Henley -5

 

[irip]

Yeah, that's fair. The Saturday foursomes scores were something else.
Aberg/Fitz -2
Young/Bryson -6

Tommy/Rory -6
Morikawa/English -3

Hatton/Rahm -5
Xander/Cantlay -2

Vic & Bob -6
Scheffler/Henley -5

When you look at the names on both sides there I would say the US team generally would have the straighter hitters and we would have guys more capable of going on birdie runs.
I think having deep thick rough would have been a big advantage to the US team.
Am still amazed Bradley had it all cut down

 

[cookelad]

I'm curious how close Luke Donald would have come to making the list of bad captains, had we lost and that 7point lead overturned. Would playing Rahm, Fleetwood and McIlroy in all 5 matches, etc have been criticised?

I'm sure more well informed people could come up with more reasons.

 

[craigstardis1976]

I think Nicklaus is an interesting case study as US Captain. He perhaps should have been still playing in 1983 and barely scraped home as Captain and in 1987 despite being in his hometown - by accounts I have read and from people who were living in Columbus, OH, he did not get the local following of home town fans he thought he would. Columbus, OH is a sports mad city (Ohio State University) but by 1987 the ultra exclusive enclave Nicklaus and his family lived in at least for part of the year (Dublin) was becoming a closed off community because of its great wealth and in the middle of central Ohio, it did not really fit with what was going on in the area at the time and there were more than a few people in the community who thought Nicklaus had forgotten his roots which in truth were always on the right side of the rails versus being a product of manufacturing working and middle classes who made up a lot of the population of Columbus at the time. It was also the first time ESPN provided morning and afternoon coverage of the whole event and although it is clear Jack loved The Ryder Cup and indeed we should be grateful for his suggestions that it still exists, he did not impress many in his hometown that year. I think by the mid 1990s he became more a lot more iconic in the world of Ohio sports.

Lloyd Mangrum, the US captain back in 1953 was very fortunate Peter Alliss and Bernard Hunt stumbled close to home.

I think the British Captains in the 1970's were very poor in retrospect. The aforementioned Bernard Hunt seemed to spend all week talking about GB&I being the underdogs in 1973 and not in a "Wait we are gonna surprise you kind of way." More in a "The Americans are almost certainly going to win" way. The PGA of GB must have been aware of this mindset and seemed to not hold the Captain in the highest regard. From what I have read Brian Huggett was considered a very poor captain in 1977. Uncommunicative, more interested in spending the week with his wife than with his team (especially with five rookies in the GB&I team) and what were they thinking when the PGA of GB made him Captain. They must have known he was to put it mildly, a less than inspirational figure.

However, John Jacobs should have been a fantastic Captain for the new European team. A visionary in every golfing sense of the word. In 1979 his team was only 1 point down going into the final day but only managed 3.5 points. But four of those matches went to the final hole. It could easily have resulted in a European win. People talk about the the 1981 US Team as the best ever and there is no doubt Dave Marr was a very charismatic and charged leader for the USA. But Europe's exclusion of Seve from the event must be considered a huge error.