Argument on course

[Hobbit]

I used to love going out around 7:30pm - 8pm for 9 holes after a manic day at the desk. The course was always empty, and I could just amble round at my own pace, occasionally dropping a 2nd ball.

9 holes then snooker & beer. What’s not to like?

 

[Swango1980]

I do agree it is best to maximise tee slots at busy courses. As mentioned though, there are other ways to do this. For example, making members aware that if there are spare slots in their group, then other members should be encouraged to fill them, and the one, two or three is the group should not be surprised if someone else joins them.

Saying one balls have no priority is silly in my view. If the reason is to maximise groups, then might as well say 2 balls have no standing either, maybe even 3 balls. As suggested, one course priorities them in that order, so smaller group had no priority over larger group. So, in a nut shell, generally quicker groups have no standing in comparison to larger slower groups. That seems absurd.

And the OP situation isn't really resolved. OK the single player can't complain to Committee. But if members generally ignore the club rules and follow common etiquette of letting small quicker groups past, then tensions will still rise on occasions when a slow group tries to implement club policy and ignore the quick group behind. And as it is endorsed by club, it doesn't really paint that club in a good light.

 

[Slab]

I do agree it is best to maximise tee slots at busy courses. As mentioned though, there are other ways to do this. For example, making members aware that if there are spare slots in their group, then other members should be encouraged to fill them, and the one, two or three is the group should not be surprised if someone else joins them.

Saying one balls have no priority is silly in my view. If the reason is to maximise groups, then might as well say 2 balls have no standing either, maybe even 3 balls. As suggested, one course priorities them in that order, so smaller group had no priority over larger group. So, in a nut shell, generally quicker groups have no standing in comparison to larger slower groups. That seems absurd.

And the OP situation isn't really resolved. OK the single player can't complain to Committee. But if members generally ignore the club rules and follow common etiquette of letting small quicker groups past, then tensions will still rise on occasions when a slow group tries to implement club policy and ignore the quick group behind. And as it is endorsed by club, it doesn't really paint that club in a good light.

As I said some courses will just ban singles (I guess where capacity is often near 100% i.e TOC)

Other courses might be able to accept a single on the odd occasion/off peak depending on their impact to the field, so rather than ban singles outright they leave that door ajar to take a single if it works for both parties, but as part of that access there's no chance they'll be given the standing to plough through a dozen 3/4 ball groups and that will no doubt be made abundantly clear

2-balls will usually be paired up in-season, but if a pair really really doesn't want that they may get out as a 2-ball but again not to overtake the pace of the groups of 4 balls in front
Off season/poor weather etc then singles and pairs may represent little/no impact to the groups in front so they can easily be accommodated

 

[Backache]

Generally speaking priority should be determined by speed of play surely not by numbers. Equally at busy times I don't think small groups should be encouraged as course usage is inefficient.

 

[BiMGuy]

I was thinking the same thing.

I do. At least once a week in the summer.

It’s a great way to spend a bit of time quietly working on your game or having a bit of down time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If I were in @HPIMG’s current position, next time I saw the guys, or either of them, I might well find myself going up to them and apologising for my language and anger, explaining that I was getting a little bit frustrated but that that is no excuse for my behaviour. It wouldn‘t be what I’d want to do, but I’d know it was the right thing to do.

It‘s then up to them to apologise likewise, or make their excuses and reasoning for why they did as they did at the time. But if they don’t then fine. You can then walk away knowing that you have done the right thing.

When I find myself in similar scenarios and I do that I find I can dismiss my feelings about the incident and so lose any anger or resentments I might otherwise carry around in my head as I don’t need such stuff cluttering my thinking and playing with my emotions.

 

[Kilbey]

We don't have a booking system & I love that. Busy enough course, approx. 600 members.

If you want to play at 10am on a Saturday or Sunday, then you'll join a short-ish queue.

I mostly avoid this and look to tee off early & it's absolutely fine 90% of the time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

How many clubs make a rule to say single players have no standing on the course. Absolutely pathetic rule if any club runs with it.

There is nothing stopping me booking myself into an empty tee slot in the middle of a busy time, with three and four balls immediately before and after me. But I’m not booking the whole slot, just putting myself in at that time and so I’d expect to have one or more others join me - if that didn’t happen I’d accept playing at the pace of the group in front - and wouldn’t push them. If they offer to let me play through I might accept, I might not. Just depends.

If I want to play a round or a few holes by myself I find a quiet time, and usually try and have at least two or three empty tee times ahead of me.

 

[Orikoru]

They seem like the type of silly old gits who don't know "single players have no standing" was phased out 20 odd years ago. Although, OP could have been a bit more diplomatic in his response, as now it looks like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, when really it should be clear that OP is in the right.

I don't really agree with those saying he should have skipped a hole though. Some people want their round of golf to be a complete round, not have holes missing. Shouldn't have to do that. Unless you can come back and play that hole at the end perhaps.

 

[Swango1980]

There is nothing stopping me booking myself into an empty tee slot in the middle of a busy time, with three and four balls immediately before and after me. But I’m not booking the whole slot, just putting myself in at that time and so I’d expect to have one or more others join me - if that didn’t happen I’d accept playing at the pace of the group in front - and wouldn’t push them. If they offer to let me play through I might accept, I might not. Just depends.

If I want to play a round or a few holes by myself I find a quiet time, and usually try and have at least two or three empty tee times ahead of me.

Exactly the same at my place. We can book up to 4 weeks in advance, and I normally book my slot asap. The dozen or so mates I normally play with then just add themselves as and when. However, due to shorter days, 3 chaps I don't normally play with put their name next to me. And a few times, maybe a person we don't really know has added themselves to my 2 or 3 ball group. No problem at all, and good to play with different people anyway. In fact, it means that a lot more of us know each other now, and it has really just increased the size of our golfing group, so it is a great way to get to know more people and have more people to play golf with.

At busy clubs, or at busy times, I'd certainly be encouraging members to act like this. Give the green light for single players to add themselves to empty tee slots in groups, and make others aware that they could be playing with the odd person they may not know. As you say, if you want to go out as a single ball to practice, best to find a quiet time where that is feasible, but some courses then you may simply not have this luxury. And, if I ever do go out myself (rare now, but used to a lot when I was starting the game, to practice), the last thing on my mind is to rush myself. I'm there to practice, my actual score for 18 holes is irrelevant. I'll hit 2 or 3 balls, and often keep far enough behind the group in front not to put them under pressure to let me through. Only if there are groups coming up behind me, will I try and stay closer to guys in front, and hopefully they let me through (but don't expect it if there are many groups in front of them).

 

[Orikoru]

Exactly the same at my place. We can book up to 4 weeks in advance, and I normally book my slot asap. The dozen or so mates I normally play with then just add themselves as and when. However, due to shorter days, 3 chaps I don't normally play with put their name next to me. And a few times, maybe a person we don't really know has added themselves to my 2 or 3 ball group. No problem at all, and good to play with different people anyway. In fact, it means that a lot more of us know each other now, and it has really just increased the size of our golfing group, so it is a great way to get to know more people and have more people to play golf with.

At busy clubs, or at busy times, I'd certainly be encouraging members to act like this. Give the green light for single players to add themselves to empty tee slots in groups, and make others aware that they could be playing with the odd person they may not know. As you say, if you want to go out as a single ball to practice, best to find a quiet time where that is feasible, but some courses then you may simply not have this luxury. And, if I ever do go out myself (rare now, but used to a lot when I was starting the game, to practice), the last thing on my mind is to rush myself. I'm there to practice, my actual score for 18 holes is irrelevant. I'll hit 2 or 3 balls, and often keep far enough behind the group in front not to put them under pressure to let me through. Only if there are groups coming up behind me, will I try and stay closer to guys in front, and hopefully they let me through (but don't expect it if there are many groups in front of them).

During or slightly after Covid our club had that kind of booking system, we played with quite a few different members who put their name down with us. Then they scrapped it and went back to the old 'turn up and go out' method, and now it's much rarer that we play with any new players.

 

[Billysboots]

Bottom line, if the 2-ball had an empty course in front of them, not letting a quicker group behind through, regardless of the number of players in that group, is absolutely unforgivable.

When it becomes slightly more problematic can be when a course is rammed, when the stop/start impact of groups constantly being waved through can impact on pace of play. It is for this reason than many clubs, mine included, have a sign near the first tea which states that, at weekends, the pace of play will be that of a 4-ball. In short, what they are saying to the singles and 2-balls is that it is likely to be quite slow, and don’t expect to be waved through.

If I play on my own, which isn’t often these days, I do not expect to be called through if the course is heaving unless the group in front lose ground on those ahead of them. If they keep pace then I don’t really feel comfortable being the meat in the sandwich nor do I expect any priority.

 

[clubchamp98]

Bottom line, if the 2-ball had an empty course in front of them, not letting a quicker group behind through, regardless of the number of players in that group, is absolutely unforgivable.

When it becomes slightly more problematic can be when a course is rammed, when the stop/start impact of groups constantly being waved through can impact on pace of play. It is for this reason than many clubs, mine included, have a sign near the first tea which states that, at weekends, the pace of play will be that of a 4-ball. In short, what they are saying to the singles and 2-balls is that it is likely to be quite slow, and don’t expect to be waved through.

If I play on my own, which isn’t often these days, I do not expect to be called through if the course is heaving unless the group in front lose ground on those ahead of them. If they keep pace then I don’t really feel comfortable being the meat in the sandwich nor do I expect any priority.

Yes this makes a lot of sense!
But some people don’t have any common sense.
Or they like the confrontation !

 

[timd77]

I know this ‘1 ball has no standing’ rule is largely gone, but how would it work in the OP’s scenario:

He’s stuck behind 2 slow biffs who won’t let him through, waiting on every shot. The 3 ball behind him are therefore now waiting on every shot, and the 2 ball behind them are now waiting etc etc. Would the 1 ball have to stand aside and let the others through even though he’s not the one holding up play?

Bloody bizarre all this is.

 

[Billysboots]

I know this ‘1 ball has no standing’ rule is largely gone, but how would it work in the OP’s scenario:

He’s stuck behind 2 slow biffs who won’t let him through, waiting on every shot. The 3 ball behind him are therefore now waiting on every shot, and the 2 ball behind them are now waiting etc etc. Would the 1 ball have to stand aside and let the others through even though he’s not the one holding up play?

Bloody bizarre all this is.

Which is precisely why clubs should clamp down on this sort of behaviour.

We used to have a real issue at ours with slow play, the same individuals always being the culprits. We are proprietary owned, and at first the manager wasn’t all that bothered. He ignored the complaints.

He soon changed his tune when he saw visitor bookings plummet, along with societies, and noticed the reviews on the now defunct UK Golf Guide made repeated reference to an appalling pace of play. That’s a reputation no club wants, especially a proprietorship one relying on visitor pounds.

As a consequence we’re much better at confronting the culprits now. Not good enough, but better.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Bottom line, if the 2-ball had an empty course in front of them, not letting a quicker group behind through, regardless of the number of players in that group, is absolutely unforgivable.

When it becomes slightly more problematic can be when a course is rammed, when the stop/start impact of groups constantly being waved through can impact on pace of play. It is for this reason than many clubs, mine included, have a sign near the first tea which states that, at weekends, the pace of play will be that of a 4-ball. In short, what they are saying to the singles and 2-balls is that it is likely to be quite slow, and don’t expect to be waved through.

If I play on my own, which isn’t often these days, I do not expect to be called through if the course is heaving unless the group in front lose ground on those ahead of them. If they keep pace then I don’t really feel comfortable being the meat in the sandwich nor do I expect any priority.

That was the case previous weekend at our place. Tee'd off as a 4-ball just before 9, with only other 3, but mainly 4-balls ahead on a full sheet. Tee time after us was a 2-ball. We didn't wave them through although they had to wait from time to time as that would just slowed things up even more for us and there's nothing saying the balls ahead would kept waiving them through.

 

[GB72]

Trouble is that being the squeaky wheel can be the death knoll for membership at certain clubs. I applaud the OP for speaking up but I would warn that if the people in question are well known or even popular in the club you could be in for a rough membership year. I have seen people almost totally ostracised for similar.

Personally, I am all for banning playing through totally. On a personal level, I found it very stressful on the course if I felt that my group were not playing quick enough or if they were overly pressuring other groups. As matters stand, clubs simply blame poor etiquette, send out a couple of emails and that is it. If you had to stay your place on the course, clubs by the use of marshaling could see the exact people to blame and nip the problem in the bud.

That said, I also have some issues with smaller groups demanding to play through. At my old club we used to have it with the team golfers who would pitch up on a busy Saturday with the course rammed with 4 balls from start to finish and expect to be played through in ones and twos so as they could get 9 holes of practice in before away matches.

 

[Hobbit]

Irrespective of the numbers in a group, if the group behind is quicker they should be let through. I’d rather have a quicker group in front of me than have them getting frustrated and firing the odd ball up close to remind me they are there.

As for the course is stuffed, pointless letting someone through. Who’s to say the next few groups might let them through too? Just let them through. That way everyone can relax again and enjoy their golf.

 

[BiMGuy]

That was the case previous weekend at our place. Tee'd off as a 4-ball just before 9, with only other 3, but mainly 4-balls ahead on a full sheet. Tee time after us was a 2-ball. We didn't wave them through although they had to wait from time to time as that would just slowed things up even more for us and there's nothing saying the balls ahead would kept waiving them through.

We have a rule on Saturday and Sunday mornings that 4 ball pace is what everyone should play, regardless of group size. Usually not a problem because of it being a busy time.

Some people have misunderstood that to mean that a 4 ball doesn’t need to let a faster group through if they have lost ground, or don’t realise it only applies to specific times.

We do have a problem with pace of play, from what I have seen it’s usually to do with how people move around the course rather than looking for balls.

As a 3 ball we were held up by a single a couple of weeks ago. It was painful to watch someone have so many practice swings.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

We have a rule on Saturday and Sunday mornings that 4 ball pace is what everyone should play, regardless of group size. Usually not a problem because of it being a busy time.

Some people have misunderstood that to mean that a 4 ball doesn’t need to let a faster group through if they have lost ground, or don’t realise it only applies to specific times.

We do have a problem with pace of play, from what I have seen it’s usually to do with how people move around the course rather than looking for balls.

As a 3 ball we were held up by a single a couple of weeks ago. It was painful to watch someone have so many practice swings.

Yeah, we never once lost ground, but we ourselves had to wait from time to time. Think our round came in at just about 4 hours, 4:10 tops, but now that I think of it, think the 2-ball actually may have dropped off after 9. Apparently they should've been a 3-ball but their partner pulled out on the morning, so they better give him a bollocking instead!