Argument on course

[Swango1980]

Trouble is that being the squeaky wheel can be the death knoll for membership at certain clubs. I applaud the OP for speaking up but I would warn that if the people in question are well known or even popular in the club you could be in for a rough membership year. I have seen people almost totally ostracised for similar.

Personally, I am all for banning playing through totally. On a personal level, I found it very stressful on the course if I felt that my group were not playing quick enough or if they were overly pressuring other groups. As matters stand, clubs simply blame poor etiquette, send out a couple of emails and that is it. If you had to stay your place on the course, clubs by the use of marshaling could see the exact people to blame and nip the problem in the bud.

That said, I also have some issues with smaller groups demanding to play through. At my old club we used to have it with the team golfers who would pitch up on a busy Saturday with the course rammed with 4 balls from start to finish and expect to be played through in ones and twos so as they could get 9 holes of practice in before away matches.

I get what you are saying, although I wouldn't go to that extreme.

I once had a work day golf with two chaps who never played the game before. Teed off about 1:30pm and finished at around 8:00pm, maybe just after. It was horrifically slow, but just imagine how stressful it would have been had we been banned from allowing others through, or that one or 2 within the group wanted to uphold that ban?

But, I like it when clubs are pragmatic, and lay it out that quicker groups should not be expected to be waved through when it is very busy in front. I think some quicker groups simply feel entitled that they should be let through regardless. At same time, if there is a big gap in front of the slow group, and especially if it is evident they are clearly slower than the guys behind, then let them through.

Perhaps clubs could help themselves by giving some useful guidance as to the most efficient way to do this. For example, based on their course layout, they might see 3rd, 6th, 11th and 15th holes as good holes to let groups through. The most efficient way to do so might be to hit tee shots, allow group behind to finish last hole and hit tee shots, then walk down fairway together. Then they could have big signs on these tee boxes reiterating the "let-through" methodology. If there are large signs making it clear about letting people through, when it should be considered and how it should be done most efficiently, it may well make slow golfers wake up and follow the guidance.

 

[GB72]

I get what you are saying, although I wouldn't go to that extreme.

I once had a work day golf with two chaps who never played the game before. Teed off about 1:30pm and finished at around 8:00pm, maybe just after. It was horrifically slow, but just imagine how stressful it would have been had we been banned from allowing others through, or that one or 2 within the group wanted to uphold that ban?

But, I like it when clubs are pragmatic, and lay it out that quicker groups should not be expected to be waved through when it is very busy in front. I think some quicker groups simply feel entitled that they should be let through regardless. At same time, if there is a big gap in front of the slow group, and especially if it is evident they are clearly slower than the guys behind, then let them through.

Perhaps clubs could help themselves by giving some useful guidance as to the most efficient way to do this. For example, based on their course layout, they might see 3rd, 6th, 11th and 15th holes as good holes to let groups through. The most efficient way to do so might be to hit tee shots, allow group behind to finish last hole and hit tee shots, then walk down fairway together. Then they could have big signs on these tee boxes reiterating the "let-through" methodology. If there are large signs making it clear about letting people through, when it should be considered and how it should be done most efficiently, it may well make slow golfers wake up and follow the guidance.

In that situation I would see that as when the marshal steps in and pulls the group to one side and lets people through.

Sadly too few clubs even have marshals on the course. I strongly believe that they are the answer to many issues in that it stops personal arguments and confrontation between members. The Marsha's word is final, argue with them and you get a suspension then a ban.

 

[Billysboots]

Ultimately, it’s about exercising common sense. As in all walks of life, too many golfers lack it.

 

[IanM]

Ultimately, it’s about exercising common sense. As in all walks of life, too many PEOPLE lack it.

A minor edit. I think most golfers are better that the average sample of Joe Public. That's why examples of wombattery are so annoying.

 

[Billysboots]

A minor edit. I think most golfers are better that the average sample of Joe Public. That's why examples of wombattery are so annoying.

Wombattery. I’m adding that to my list of must-use words.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Marshalls - for those clubs that have them, are they paid or volunteers? If volunteers, do they then miss their own golf that day?

Stretching my mind, I can only think of 2 occasions where I have seen a marshall out on a course, Gleneagles and Ganton. I can't think of anywhere in the NE of England where I have seen a course with them.

 

[Billysboots]

Marshalls - for those clubs that have them, are they paid or volunteers? If volunteers, do they then miss their own golf that day?

Stretching my mind, I can only think of 2 occasions where I have seen a marshall out on a course, Gleneagles and Ganton. I can't think of anywhere in the NE of England where I have seen a course with them.

We have a starter on competition days who will go out and marshall once all the entrants have started. The problem with that is that, by the time he’s out on the course, the early starters are invariably on the back nine and any problems with slow play are already impacting on the field.

They are committee volunteers, not employed by the club.

 

[GB72]

I could certainly see a situation where I would volunteer as a marshal for a day at weekends for a reduced membership fee.

My old club only used marshals one year and that was only to patrol the course in the evening to check nobody had snuck on. No interest in anything other than something that impacted the club's wallet. Ignored slow play, not letting people through etc.

 

[Boabie]

I will try and keep this as short as possible. A Few weeks ago I got stuck behind a two ball, older golfers. Really slow and waiting on every hole and every fairway. On a tee box with them and they just continued to ignore me so I know by this point there not letting me through. It was cold and windy so just walked off cause I had planned to go gym anyway after golf.
I see chairman in car park tell him story and say can you have a word with them.
So two weeks go past a don’t remember what these two look like and a walk past two golfers on back 9 I say morning and they both draw me the dirtiest look you could imagine so I clicked on its they two and say do you have a problem one says I’m putting a email in about you. So i call them so and sos and walk to next hole.
Again say to chairman I called them a so and so but after they gave me a dirty look and I said morning, he also said first encounter the golfers said I was no where near them. So there obvious liars.
So this morning was the big one out behind them again won’t let me past I again am on a tee box with them so I say look guys I’m going to play through I’m faster. One goes you certainly are not playing through. I kid you not lol I didn’t really know what to say next so just said I am dropping a ball fast a hitting it quick it was a short par 3. So they are raging and calling me ignorant told them to F off and played through.
I don’t know what to do now chairman has told them they must let faster people play through and when I asked it was a straight no.
I am thinking about asking for my joining fee and money back just joined recently, unless chairman it going to take action against these two and I know the golf course isn’t mine and everyone has to come and go a little but honestly these are the two most ignorant people I’ve ever met on a golf course. Am I in the right or am I just biased? I just can’t see it from there side at all.
Hopefully this post isn’t too long.

I'd say the the most common issue at every course in the country is "pace of play" not slow play not fast play. Unless the clubs are managed and letters sent to offending members then this frustration will continue.
There is nothing wrong in having something printed on the every score card stating "If the hole in front is clear and you are holding up the group behind you shall invite them to play through" Thereafter the course management should or must take action, initially in a written format to those not sticking to this rule. To repeated offenders withdrawal of their membership may be the only answer.

 

[Slab]

A starter and a marshal both employees of the club working in the Player Services team (& not necessarily the same ppl all the time, depends who’s allocated the task on that day. I’d guess there’s about a dozen of them that look after the practice range, starter duties, marshalling, bag drop, sorting carts out pre and post round etc)

 

[GB72]

I'd say the the most common issue at every course in the country is "pace of play" not slow play not fast play. Unless the clubs are managed and letters sent to offending members then this frustration will continue.
There is nothing wrong in having something printed on the every score card stating "If the hole in front is clear and you are holding up the group behind you shall invite them to play through" Thereafter the course management should or must take action, initially in a written format to those not sticking to this rule. To repeated offenders withdrawal of their membership may be the only answer.

Sadly there are far too many people that I have experienced who treat an accusation of slow play as an equal slur on their character as criticising their sexual prowess and a request to play through as egregious as a request to sleep with their wife.

It can be printed in 6ft red letters everywhere but to a significant number it is not them that are slow.

 

[Captain_Black.]

Slow is hard to define, unless it's just ridiculously obviously slow.
I'm a very quick player.
I assess the shot as I'm walking to the ball.
A quick distance check
One practice swing, then hit it.
But I've had players in the past literally running around, equally I've also been stuck behind captain slow.

That's the beauty of my clubs online booking system, I know the slow players, I just avoid going out anywhere near them & the same with societies.

 

[Slab]

We’re drifting into discussing the topic of a slow pace of play on a course when the topic was actually a faster group not being let through resulting in argument

 

[PJ87]

Marshalls - for those clubs that have them, are they paid or volunteers? If volunteers, do they then miss their own golf that day?

Stretching my mind, I can only think of 2 occasions where I have seen a marshall out on a course, Gleneagles and Ganton. I can't think of anywhere in the NE of England where I have seen a course with them.

We have a team of at least 8 marshalls that I can think top of my head. Prob more. The head marshall is employed. But as a general handy man/ marshall

The others get free membership as a thank you

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Exactly the same at my place. We can book up to 4 weeks in advance, and I normally book my slot asap. The dozen or so mates I normally play with then just add themselves as and when. However, due to shorter days, 3 chaps I don't normally play with put their name next to me. And a few times, maybe a person we don't really know has added themselves to my 2 or 3 ball group. No problem at all, and good to play with different people anyway. In fact, it means that a lot more of us know each other now, and it has really just increased the size of our golfing group, so it is a great way to get to know more people and have more people to play golf with.

At busy clubs, or at busy times, I'd certainly be encouraging members to act like this. Give the green light for single players to add themselves to empty tee slots in groups, and make others aware that they could be playing with the odd person they may not know. As you say, if you want to go out as a single ball to practice, best to find a quiet time where that is feasible, but some courses then you may simply not have this luxury. And, if I ever do go out myself (rare now, but used to a lot when I was starting the game, to practice), the last thing on my mind is to rush myself. I'm there to practice, my actual score for 18 holes is irrelevant. I'll hit 2 or 3 balls, and often keep far enough behind the group in front not to put them under pressure to let me through. Only if there are groups coming up behind me, will I try and stay closer to guys in front, and hopefully they let me through (but don't expect it if there are many groups in front of them).

I also have no qualms about adding my name to a two or three ball…but after doing so I’ll just ping them a message out of courtesy to check that they were OK with that - occasionally they might not have booked all four player slots in a tee time as they wait for confirmation from others…or if a two ball they might be playing a match.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

If there is space in front call the faster group through. If there isn't then they need to suck it up and accept a slower round. Calling through bunches up the field behind.

 

[rudebhoy]

Marshalls - for those clubs that have them, are they paid or volunteers? If volunteers, do they then miss their own golf that day?

Stretching my mind, I can only think of 2 occasions where I have seen a marshall out on a course, Gleneagles and Ganton. I can't think of anywhere in the NE of England where I have seen a course with them.

The only place in the NE I've seen one was bizarrely enough at Parklands when I first started playing. I think their primary function was to make sure non-members had paid as they had a problem with folk skipping on. Not sure you would class that as being a "marshall" right enough?

 

[Sand Trapped]

Ultimately, it’s about exercising common sense. As in all walks of life, too many golfers lack it.

This is it really. If they're not letting you through, skip a hole, reverse the 9s or just try to avoid playing behind their names on the tee-sheet.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The only place in the NE I've seen one was bizarrely enough at Parklands when I first started playing. I think their primary function was to make sure non-members had paid as they had a problem with folk skipping on. Not sure you would class that as being a "marshall" right enough?

Longhirst has someone in a hut on the 1st, at weekends, but that is more a starter than a marshall patrolling the course. I could envisage Northumberland having them but as I've never played there, I don't know

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Irrespective of the numbers in a group, if the group behind is quicker they should be let through. I’d rather have a quicker group in front of me than have them getting frustrated and firing the odd ball up close to remind me they are there.

As for the course is stuffed, pointless letting someone through. Who’s to say the next few groups might let them through too? Just let them through. That way everyone can relax again and enjoy their golf.

…and if you do the ‘let through’ properly, the time added to your round duration will be no more than that added were you have to look for balls in the rough a few more times.