Another course gone

[Crow]

If that was a direct quote, then it deserved to close for the abuse of 'Englsh' alone! Otherwise a very sad example of 'modern tmes'!

Er..... 'Fewer'!

Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with you - but it's also something of a 'selling' stance !

Yawn, give it a rest.

(But before you do, learn how to spell "English" and "times")

 

[IanM]

eye eye

 

[FuzzyDuck]

I think we might have known but the council have sold off Southwood GC (Farnborough, Hants).

Have they sold it off? Last I heard they were just closing the course down and returning it to nature.

Edit: Still the plan according to this link:

https://www.rushmoor.gov.uk/article/2999/Southwood-Golf-Course

The golf course closed suddenly due to Mack Golf going into liquidation a couple of months ago but it was always going to close soon.

 

[OLgolfer]

I think we might have known but the council have sold off Southwood GC (Farnborough, Hants). Having just looked on their website I think the message on the club's home page will make a rather sad read for most golfers...

Southwood was a public Golf Course, located close to Farnborough town centre and Farnborough Airport.

It was a picturesque and tightly tree lined course providing an enjoyable and challenging test ideal for beginners and low handicappers alike. Its once immaculate greens where widely regarded as being amongst the best in Hampshire, yet the green fees where amongst the lowest in the area.

Southwood Golf Club was not a private members club so anyone could of joined. We had an active and friendly membership with a thriving schedule of competitions for members, including monthly medals, stablefords, board competitions, mixed, junior and fun events open to all members. New members, beginners and experienced golfers alike, where always given a warm welcome.

So message for me is - whenever you can - treasure, nurture and support your golf club...do not take it for granted.

Why is this sad reading for golfers..? Maybe only sad for it’s members and the very few who played there.

With so many options and so many golf clubs fighting for your green fees and memberships we can absolutely take it for granted.

Golf will never disappear... some courses will go, some will come... the numbers playing the game will go up and will go down...

 

[Sweep]

That is my theory too.

However I would never like golf to get to the point again that those "two" or whatever number of clubs in an area can decide to increase fees to what they want, introduce astronomical joining fees again and take golf back into the jacket and tie era. There has to be a happy medium. Question is, can that be achieved.

In a word no. I have no doubt that most clubs have or can modernise. The days of jacket and tie as you put it are gone. However I believe golf clubs will eventually become elitist again and here’s why.
Think about the main section of the membership at your club. The chances are the biggest section are retirees. These are the golden age chaps. All enjoying pensions of the kind most working today can only dream of. Final salary deals and gone at 50. Now imagine your club without say 2/3rds of those retirees. What would your subscription need to be? Because once this generation of retirees has gone, those coming up behind will have nothing like the pensions and therefore nothing like the disposable income. In the future your club is likely to have maybe a third of the retirees it has now.
I know guys at my club who say they would never have dreamed they could join. Some caddied there as kids, never believing they would one day be a member. However in those days there might have been say 300 members. Some members never even played. The rise in popularity of golf allowed clubs to increase their memberships substantially. Subscriptions didn’t need to rise much in real terms. That, coupled with those great pensions suddenly meant golf club membership was accessible to more people than ever. But nowadays anyone who works or has a family rarely has the time to play. Those that do have the time and the money are the retirees and that’s why golf has an ageing profile.
So I believe golf club membership will become elitist again. I do think there will be a vibrant sector of the market in municipal or “dip in, dip out” propriety courses for those who can’t or don’t want to join a members club. But the clubs themselves will eventually hike membership and joining fees, basically because they will have to. We are already seeing points based “membership lite” deals and run for profit courses set up to attract the “nomad”. The “nomads” aren’t keeping the members clubs going at £25 a round once or twice a year. It’s the members who do that. Eventually the clubs will realise they owe their existence to their members and they will stop chasing the visitor. The nomads won’t be too fussed because playing different courses seems to have lost its novelty value. You only have to look at the demise of opens to see that. The days will return when you will only be able to play certain clubs if you are invited.

 

[robinthehood]

That sounds more like wishful thinking than any sort of reality .

 

[Sweep]

That sounds more like wishful thinking than any sort of reality .

Why on earth would anyone wish for that? If you read what I said, I highlighted how golf had enjoyed a boom and had become accessible to many, many more people, including me. That boom was over ages ago and the associated accessibility will soon follow. How can that be good for anyone? I also highlighted how those who are working today cannot expect the pensions and final salary schemes enjoyed by today’s retirees. Here is a clue. I am still working.
So, are you suggesting I am wishing for myself a poorer pension and a future without golf? Are you suggesting I am wishing for a poorer future for the game I love?
Not for the first time I am afraid you are spouting absolute bilge. Try thinking before typing.

 

[robinthehood]

Do you have anything else in your repertoire besides insults and long rambling posts? I know you think it makes you look intelligent .. but trust me when I say it doesn't.

 

[Jacko_G]

In a word no. I have no doubt that most clubs have or can modernise. The days of jacket and tie as you put it are gone. However I believe golf clubs will eventually become elitist again and here’s why.
Think about the main section of the membership at your club. The chances are the biggest section are retirees. These are the golden age chaps. All enjoying pensions of the kind most working today can only dream of. Final salary deals and gone at 50. Now imagine your club without say 2/3rds of those retirees. What would your subscription need to be? Because once this generation of retirees has gone, those coming up behind will have nothing like the pensions and therefore nothing like the disposable income. In the future your club is likely to have maybe a third of the retirees it has now.
I know guys at my club who say they would never have dreamed they could join. Some caddied there as kids, never believing they would one day be a member. However in those days there might have been say 300 members. Some members never even played. The rise in popularity of golf allowed clubs to increase their memberships substantially. Subscriptions didn’t need to rise much in real terms. That, coupled with those great pensions suddenly meant golf club membership was accessible to more people than ever. But nowadays anyone who works or has a family rarely has the time to play. Those that do have the time and the money are the retirees and that’s why golf has an ageing profile.
So I believe golf club membership will become elitist again. I do think there will be a vibrant sector of the market in municipal or “dip in, dip out” propriety courses for those who can’t or don’t want to join a members club. But the clubs themselves will eventually hike membership and joining fees, basically because they will have to. We are already seeing points based “membership lite” deals and run for profit courses set up to attract the “nomad”. The “nomads” aren’t keeping the members clubs going at £25 a round once or twice a year. It’s the members who do that. Eventually the clubs will realise they owe their existence to their members and they will stop chasing the visitor. The nomads won’t be too fussed because playing different courses seems to have lost its novelty value. You only have to look at the demise of opens to see that. The days will return when you will only be able to play certain clubs if you are invited.

Personally I think golf has evolved enough not to get back into that state, either perceived or not. My main gripe is joining fees. Wouldn't like to ever think I would be paying another joining fee EVER!

 

[Sweep]

Do you have anything else in your repertoire besides insults and long rambling posts? I know you think it makes you look intelligent .. but trust me when I say it doesn't.

I insult? Seriously? I posted a genuine answer to a relevant question where I highlighted my fears for the future of golf club membership. But rather than say why you disagreed with my concerns or answer any points I raised, you just retort out of nowhere some nonsense about it being wishful thinking. Now, you can’t even defend your comments and explain why you think I would wish for a bad pension for myself or why I would relish not being able to afford a membership when I retire. You can’t defend your post because it’s nonsense and you know it. Your first reply made you look silly.
To me your first reaction to most posts seems to try to be confrontational first and foremost without thinking about contributing to the thread or expressing a valid opinion. This is a prime example. You have tried to turn a completely non-controversial thread into an argument. Another keyboard warrior or internet troll is not needed, thanks. Seriously, you should try contributing positively. I am sure you have some valid points to make.

 

[Sweep]

Personally I think golf has evolved enough not to get back into that state, either perceived or not. My main gripe is joining fees. Wouldn't like to ever think I would be paying another joining fee EVER!

I hope you are right. However, to clubs joining fees are not just about the money. These days because a member could effectively join and leave at anytime of their choosing, the joining fee is a way - I accept it’s a crude way - of locking a member in.

 

[robinthehood]

Personally I think golf has evolved enough not to get back into that state, either perceived or not. My main gripe is joining fees. Wouldn't like to ever think I would be paying another joining fee EVER!

A few places I have rang that have a joining fee listed have said they will happily waive it. Same for their application process that require me to be recommended and seconded. It's all very old fashioned and seems like a lot of clubs are struggling with fact they just aren't the status symbol they were 40 odd years ago.

 

[OLgolfer]

A few places I have rang that have a joining fee listed have said they will happily waive it. Same for their application process that require me to be recommended and seconded. It's all very old fashioned and seems like a lot of clubs are struggling with fact they just aren't the status symbol they were 40 odd years ago.

I joined a fairly high end club a few years ago and they waived the joining fee and the waiting list to get me in. Basically, reading between the lines, the joining fee and waiting list was only there to create and uphold the feeling of exclusivity and a complete fraud.

As it turned out, I didn’t renew after the first year as it was stuffy and full of righteous golfers, the type I completely hate..! Not quite jacket and tie but they certainly thought of themselves in those terms

 

[OLgolfer]

In a word no. I have no doubt that most clubs have or can modernise. The days of jacket and tie as you put it are gone. However I believe golf clubs will eventually become elitist again and here’s why.
Think about the main section of the membership at your club. The chances are the biggest section are retirees. These are the golden age chaps. All enjoying pensions of the kind most working today can only dream of. Final salary deals and gone at 50. Now imagine your club without say 2/3rds of those retirees. What would your subscription need to be? Because once this generation of retirees has gone, those coming up behind will have nothing like the pensions and therefore nothing like the disposable income. In the future your club is likely to have maybe a third of the retirees it has now.
I know guys at my club who say they would never have dreamed they could join. Some caddied there as kids, never believing they would one day be a member. However in those days there might have been say 300 members. Some members never even played. The rise in popularity of golf allowed clubs to increase their memberships substantially. Subscriptions didn’t need to rise much in real terms. That, coupled with those great pensions suddenly meant golf club membership was accessible to more people than ever. But nowadays anyone who works or has a family rarely has the time to play. Those that do have the time and the money are the retirees and that’s why golf has an ageing profile.
So I believe golf club membership will become elitist again. I do think there will be a vibrant sector of the market in municipal or “dip in, dip out” propriety courses for those who can’t or don’t want to join a members club. But the clubs themselves will eventually hike membership and joining fees, basically because they will have to. We are already seeing points based “membership lite” deals and run for profit courses set up to attract the “nomad”. The “nomads” aren’t keeping the members clubs going at £25 a round once or twice a year. It’s the members who do that. Eventually the clubs will realise they owe their existence to their members and they will stop chasing the visitor. The nomads won’t be too fussed because playing different courses seems to have lost its novelty value. You only have to look at the demise of opens to see that. The days will return when you will only be able to play certain clubs if you are invited.

Looking at the accounts of my old club, membership fees made up 60% of total revenue and green fees only 18%. I suspect that is fairly common, but would guess that green fees at better clubs/courses would make up a higher percentage l, but nowhere near the membership subs.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If that was a direct quote, then it deserved to close for the abuse of 'Englsh' alone! Otherwise a very sad example of 'modern tmes'!

Lifted directly - pity about the obvious sp mistake right at the end..

 

[Sweep]

Looking at the accounts of my old club, membership fees made up 60% of total revenue and green fees only 18%. I suspect that is fairly common, but would guess that green fees at better clubs/courses would make up a higher percentage l, but nowhere near the membership subs.

I think 18% is quite high. Last year at my club it was about 5%. I think it depends on if the club can make money on other revenue streams like bar and catering for example. You also have to factor in that throughout the year members typically spend their membership subscription again at their club on pro shop spend, bar, social functions, catering, comp fees etc.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Have they sold it off? Last I heard they were just closing the course down and returning it to nature.

Edit: Still the plan according to this link:

https://www.rushmoor.gov.uk/article/2999/Southwood-Golf-Course

The golf course closed suddenly due to Mack Golf going into liquidation a couple of months ago but it was always going to close soon.

Ah right - ah well - my source was not so reliable...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why is this sad reading for golfers..? Maybe only sad for it’s members and the very few who played there.

With so many options and so many golf clubs fighting for your green fees and memberships we can absolutely take it for granted.

Golf will never disappear... some courses will go, some will come... the numbers playing the game will go up and will go down...

It is sad for me as a golfer. I played the course once, I do not miss it for myself.

As a kindred spirit I feel a sadness for the golfers who played there; who enjoyed their course; who cared for their course and club - and who enjoyed great times with their fellow members and other players.

And we can each at times be critical of those who work hard to keep the clubs and courses we play going and viable - and we can complain when they ask for a bit more money - or (see other thread) a bit of bar/food money up front.

 

[Mrs Wiggles]

Sandilands golf course, founded in 1894, closed yesterday. Members got an email yesterday morning and the staff were told that they were being made redundant.

Genuinely upset about this one, played it a couple of times and it's a lovely course and a real shame for everyone affiliated with the club.

I live a few miles from the course, and have played it many times. The course is quite boring, but has traditionally been well kept. There are a few fairways that have to be shared,, which is never good. The owner had only just raised the prices, and by 25%. I am guessing that many members decided not to renew. Only this morning I bumped into one of their members at my club, as he had come to do a recky. Our greens are awful at the moment, so I don't know what he will be doing. There has been an offer by a company called Blue Anchor, which I believe MAY have been accepted. This company (if allowed) will turn the entire course in to a caravan park, which will look absolutely dreadful. The trouble being that the caravan site owners in this area have a hold on the council, and will get planning permission 99 times out of 100. A very sad day

 

[Robster59]

This has been discussed on a few threads previously and the issue is there are now a lot of areas where there are too many courses to meet demand and so some will sadly fade away. I doubt we will ever get back to the days of too many people and not enough courses but most clubs have had to move with the times as far as clothing, membership, joining, etc. so I can't see them going back to the blazer days.