Another course gone

[DeanoMK]

Sandilands golf course, founded in 1894, closed yesterday. Members got an email yesterday morning and the staff were told that they were being made redundant.

Genuinely upset about this one, played it a couple of times and it's a lovely course and a real shame for everyone affiliated with the club.

 

[duncan mackie]

Be interesting to hear the full story here.

With 17 classes of membership, including weekend only!, and a 25% increase in membership numbers in 2018, this would seem to be the progressive, dynamic, club that many post about on here....

So what's happening?

 

[Deleted member 17920]

Gutted for them, I met the owner a few times and a really nice chap. I used the club quite a few times for food when I was at the beach walking the hound and it was never busy enough.

So in Lincolnshire over the last few weeks we have had 3 close.

Sandilands
Canwick Park
Immingham

Not a good sign of the times.

 

[Jacko_G]

Gutted for them, I met the owner a few times and a really nice chap. I used the club quite a few times for food when I was at the beach walking the hound and it was never busy enough.

So in Lincolnshire over the last few weeks we have had 3 close.

Sandilands
Canwick Park
Immingham

Not a good sign of the times.

I know nothing about the area or the clubs but does it/has it dispersed any of the members into other clubs, or is it too early to tell?

 

[Deleted member 17920]

I know nothing about the area or the clubs but does it/has it dispersed any of the members into other clubs, or is it too early to tell?

Sandilands is only closing today.

I imagine Louth and Skegness will see those members if they decide on re-joining.

Canwick, they have gone in dribs and drabs I am told to other local clubs, we have had a few join but we are double what they charge so I know some have gone to other clubs in the same price bracket.

No idea about members at Immigham but I guess Grimsby and Elsham will get the lions share.

 

[duncan mackie]

Gutted for them, I met the owner a few times and a really nice chap. I used the club quite a few times for food when I was at the beach walking the hound and it was never busy enough.

So in Lincolnshire over the last few weeks we have had 3 close.

Sandilands
Canwick Park
Immingham

Not a good sign of the times.

Was this before or after it was sold in 2014?

There would appear to be a number of things going on in the area, including of course the ever changing council planning plans over recent years, which if the 2014 sales documentation was accurate, could include huge change of use implications. The golf club turnover was tiny by 2013 (fallen to just over 100k), and even on the up it wouldnt get close financially to many possible alternative uses (in that area caravan parks are massive).

 

[Deleted member 17920]

Was this before or after it was sold in 2014?

There would appear to be a number of things going on in the area, including of course the ever changing council planning plans over recent years, which if the 2014 sales documentation was accurate, could include huge change of use implications. The golf club turnover was tiny by 2013 (fallen to just over 100k), and even on the up it wouldnt get close financially to many possible alternative uses (in that area caravan parks are massive).

I have visited several times in the last 2 years.

Agreed on the caravan parks, there are so many and you would have thought they would have tons and tons of country members.

Sutton/Mablethorpe is not a big holiday resort like Skegness but Sandilands was a good all year round course, its no great links course but it did the job well.

 

[Grant85]

Be interesting to hear the full story here.

With 17 classes of membership, including weekend only!, and a 25% increase in membership numbers in 2018, this would seem to be the progressive, dynamic, club that many post about on here....

So what's happening?

Defiantly would be interesting.
Possibly a case of too little too late and / or carrying quite a bit of debt that had been built up over the years.

 

[OLgolfer]

Simple answer is that there are too many golf courses. Market economics, and with soo many courses struggling to break even every year there will be more closing.

It would be good for a number of courses to close which should increase the quality and long term stability of those that remain. Better to have 2 profitable golf clubs in one area than 5 or 6 which are struggling.

 

[Jacko_G]

Simple answer is that there are too many golf courses. Market economics, and with soo many courses struggling to break even every year there will be more closing.

It would be good for a number of courses to close which should increase the quality and long term stability of those that remain. Better to have 2 profitable golf clubs in one area than 5 or 6 which are struggling.

That is my theory too.

However I would never like golf to get to the point again that those "two" or whatever number of clubs in an area can decide to increase fees to what they want, introduce astronomical joining fees again and take golf back into the jacket and tie era. There has to be a happy medium. Question is, can that be achieved.

 

[OLgolfer]

That is my theory too.

However I would never like golf to get to the point again that those "two" or whatever number of clubs in an area can decide to increase fees to what they want, introduce astronomical joining fees again and take golf back into the jacket and tie era. There has to be a happy medium. Question is, can that be achieved.

No, or very slowly. Golf club committees and management are too emotionally attached to their ‘history’ and ‘status’ of their golf club to make big decisions to secure long term future. Then it’s too late and the club is on its knees.

Near me there are 2 golf courses almost next to each other. Both slightly better than average, both own the freeholds, both are member run clubs, but both are struggling. Why not merge to 2 clubs together, sell off the back 9 of one course for housing, significantly invest in the quality of the remaining 27 holes + facilities and have a really healthy membership which is secured for a longer term...

... but who is ever going to take such a big decision..? No one, hence they will both continue to struggle, next to no investment in the quality of both courses and will be competing for the same people to join and the same nomad golfers for green fees

 

[FuzzyDuck]

The owner of my golf course (Bishopswood) currently has an planning application pending to build homes on an unused portion of the golf course. The proceeds are needed to add hotels rooms (there are currently none) to the clubhouse. The statement in the planning application says the course is running at a loss year on year and without the revenue stream from the hotel the future of the whole course is in doubt. Last year planning permission was grated to build a 200+ room care home on land between the 2nd and 3rd holes, but since then nothing has happened.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think we might have known but the council have sold off Southwood GC (Farnborough, Hants). Having just looked on their website I think the message on the club's home page will make a rather sad read for most golfers...

Southwood was a public Golf Course, located close to Farnborough town centre and Farnborough Airport.

It was a picturesque and tightly tree lined course providing an enjoyable and challenging test ideal for beginners and low handicappers alike. Its once immaculate greens where widely regarded as being amongst the best in Hampshire, yet the green fees where amongst the lowest in the area.

Southwood Golf Club was not a private members club so anyone could of joined. We had an active and friendly membership with a thriving schedule of competitions for members, including monthly medals, stablefords, board competitions, mixed, junior and fun events open to all members. New members, beginners and experienced golfers alike, where always given a warm welcome.

So message for me is - whenever you can - treasure, nurture and support your golf club...do not take it for granted.

 

[Foxholer]

I think we might have known but the council have sold off Southwood GC (Farnborough, Hants). Having just looked on their website I think the message on the club's home page will make a rather sad read for most golfers...

Southwood was a public Golf Course, located close to Farnborough town centre and Farnborough Airport.

It was a picturesque and tightly tree lined course providing an enjoyable and challenging test ideal for beginners and low handicappers alike. Its once immaculate greens where widely regarded as being amongst the best in Hampshire, yet the green fees where amongst the lowest in the area.

Southwood Golf Club was not a private members club so anyone could of joined. We had an active and friendly membership with a thriving schedule of competitions for members, including monthly medals, stablefords, board competitions, mixed, junior and fun events open to all members. New members, beginners and experienced golfers alike, where always given a warm welcome.

So message for me is - whenever you can - treasure, nurture and support your golf club...do not take it for granted.

If that was a direct quote, then it deserved to close for the abuse of 'Englsh' alone! Otherwise a very sad example of 'modern tmes'!

 

[Grant85]

No, or very slowly. Golf club committees and management are too emotionally attached to their ‘history’ and ‘status’ of their golf club to make big decisions to secure long term future. Then it’s too late and the club is on its knees.

Near me there are 2 golf courses almost next to each other. Both slightly better than average, both own the freeholds, both are member run clubs, but both are struggling. Why not merge to 2 clubs together, sell off the back 9 of one course for housing, significantly invest in the quality of the remaining 27 holes + facilities and have a really healthy membership which is secured for a longer term...

... but who is ever going to take such a big decision..? No one, hence they will both continue to struggle, next to no investment in the quality of both courses and will be competing for the same people to join and the same nomad golfers for green fees

Completely agree with this and in areas where this is practical it should be preferable. The emotional attachment is a big barrier to progress.

If you think how a business would approach it. It would be survival of the fittest. Likely that the stronger club would have raised finance to buy the weaker club and did the merger and maintained a 27 hole set up with surplus land sold off / mothballed / rented.

Also so many clubs don't maximise any surplus land that they do have, or could access. For a golf club, a driving range is basically a cash cow and yet so many places have practice facilities that amount to a field with maybe a few bunkers or poorly maintained greens. A driving range wouldn't cost much to establish with covered bays and ball dispensers and would generate thousands of pounds a week, plus bring people to the club in the off-season and boost revenue of teaching pro(s).

 

[robinthehood]

Less people want to play golf, meaning less will also want to join a club. I've been looking around for a club to join and i'd have to say a lot of the private members clubs could do with making themselves seem a bit less stuffy and be a lot more welcoming.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

No, or very slowly. Golf club committees and management are too emotionally attached to their ‘history’ and ‘status’ of their golf club to make big decisions to secure long term future. Then it’s too late and the club is on its knees.

Near me there are 2 golf courses almost next to each other. Both slightly better than average, both own the freeholds, both are member run clubs, but both are struggling. Why not merge to 2 clubs together, sell off the back 9 of one course for housing, significantly invest in the quality of the remaining 27 holes + facilities and have a really healthy membership which is secured for a longer term...

... but who is ever going to take such a big decision..? No one, hence they will both continue to struggle, next to no investment in the quality of both courses and will be competing for the same people to join and the same nomad golfers for green fees

A few years ago I was on the committee of a small 9 hole course. The club was in in real trouble and on the edge of closing. We were alongside a wealthier 18 hole course and the natural solution to me was to merge, we were already aware that they were open to the suggestion. There were many advantages to both sides, our main one was survival. The derision and hostility at my suggestion astounded me. As it happens my old club is still ticking along, well done the committee who have taken it forward, but long term I still see merging as the solution, if my old club can get past its ego.

 

[Foxholer]

Less people want to play golf, meaning less will also want to join a club. I've been looking around for a club to join and i'd have to say a lot of the private members clubs could do with making themselves seem a bit less stuffy and be a lot more welcoming.

Er..... 'Fewer'!

Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with you - but it's also something of a 'selling' stance !

 

[IanM]

We've lost 3 clubs in the past 3 years... all propriatory and built in 80-90s boom. Two didnt invest sufficiently to keep up the required standard to compete with others in region so lost members, one of these due to v poor management.

The old private ones are getting stronger and others competiting with them are mainly owned by large hotels or groups. So, (relative) newcommers to market are failing and we are in danger of club golf returning to similar strucutres to those prior to the boom... (in this neck of the woods anyway!)

Sad to see as the diversity of Clubs is falling, but the quality (and cost) could rise

 

[robinthehood]

Er..... 'Fewer'!

Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with you - but it's also something of a 'selling' stance !

Most are probably run by the same sad dicks who frequent Internet forums correcting grammar and spelling mistakes.