6 Nations 2020

[GB72]

I take your point about Italy and relegation, but surely if rugby wants to grow the game as it said during the world cup, the little sides have to get more exposure, learn and develop. We've seen it in cricket especially one day games with the arrival of Bangladesh (also starting to grow as a test side) and Afghanistan. Yes they were both whipping boys for a long time but they learned. Similarly Italy have managed to produce the odd quality performance and win so they have got it in there.

Yes but the test playing nations did not risk losing revenue as a result of these teams being included. You add relegation and one team is at risk of a serious hit to income and as it is these matches that, in the main, fund the RFU, it is not an affordable risk. Certainly no room for more teams on a player welfare level if nothing else. There is also an argument about whether it does develop the game. Italy have had years of being in top level matches and really have not pushed on at club or national level with Italian teams being the whipping boys in the 6 Nations and the Champions Cup. The odd win after over a decade of being in top competition is not really enough

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I suspect whether murrayfield gets filled or not is more to do with the success, or not, of the Scottish team rather than free to air TV.

Quite possibly true - but I suspect that broader interest in rugby in Scotland may still be initiated by The 6 Nations on free to view. And when it isn't filled that is most probably simply because there just isn't the depth of interest or demand in the country.

Things may have changed massively in the last 30yrs but back then there was very little inherent grass roots interest in rugby - the interest many developed (including myself and my mates) came about from watching the 5 Nations. Murrayfield would be packed before the redevelopment when the tickets were £10 or less. As soon as the price went up following the redevelopment a lot of folk stopped going. They went for the atmosphere and the cracking day to be had in Edinburgh - not really much interest in rugby tbh - and they could get a great atmosphere and cracking day in an Edinburgh pub. Pretty much I guess how it is today.

Folk have to see Scotland playing well and winning to be encouraged to go along. Not going to happen so much behind a paywall. Might be OK for England, Ireland and Wales - I've no doubt. Not so sure about Scotland.

 

[ger147]

Murrayfield consistently sells out for any/every Scotland home match...

https://www.florugby.com/articles/6542855-scotlands-murrayfield-a-sellout-machine

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Murrayfield consistently sells out for any/every Scotland home match...

https://www.florugby.com/articles/6542855-scotlands-murrayfield-a-sellout-machine

It does indeed. Scotland have played attractive rugby for a good few years now and have been seen to be doing so by TV viewers. It's also fortunate that Glasgow and Edinburgh have been successful on the club front and so have been attracting crowds way beyond anything historically - and Glasgow and Edinburgh aren't on free to view. Hopefully a continuing healthy club scene will be what will mitigate any risk to Murreyfield crowds if the 6 Nations going behind a paywall.

 

[GB72]

It will happen. I believe that most of the Rugby Unions are pretty much skint and need the cash that Sky would bring. Would be surprised if BT did not come in as well as they have quickly become the channel for rugby at club level. It will be a shame as a lot of the social events that I have in place around the 6 nations will change based on who has sky sports.

 

[GB72]

I think that it is an often underappreciated fact by those that do not follow rugby in any detail is that the sport needs the money. Yes, the 6 Nations behind a paywall is not ideal but the various unions, the clubs at all levels, the national teams etc need funding. There are no billion pound TV deals and scant number of rich backers who want to be involved partly because the salary caps mean that spending their way to success and glory is not an option. The players, quite rightly bearing in mind the risks, want decent remuneration but player welfare means that clubs also need bigger squads (I think all bar 1 premiership club made a loss last year). Where rugby is concerned, the outcome may not be ideal but it may be necessary.

I don't know so please correct me but is the situation similar with cricket. All of the funding at club and national level would simply not have been possible on what the BBC was willing to pay.

 

[ger147]

It does indeed. Scotland have played attractive rugby for a good few years now and have been seen to be doing so by TV viewers. It's also fortunate that Glasgow and Edinburgh have been successful on the club front and so have been attracting crowds way beyond anything historically - and Glasgow and Edinburgh aren't on free to view. Hopefully a continuing healthy club scene will be what will mitigate any risk to Murreyfield crowds if the 6 Nations going behind a paywall.

And when crowds were low at Murrayfield in the past it was also on FTA TV. I personally see no connection between FTA TV coverage of the 6 Nations and the upsurge in demand for tickets to watch Scotland at Murrayfield in recent years.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And when crowds were low at Murrayfield in the past it was also on FTA TV. I personally see no connection between FTA TV coverage of the 6 Nations and the upsurge in demand for tickets to watch Scotland at Murrayfield in recent years.

I don't disagree - but I am just wondering what happens if the 6Ns is lost to FTV TV given that rugby isn't exactly #1 sport of the young and under 25s in Scotland. The fact that Glasgow and Edinburgh are successful clubs attracting relatively huge crowds without FTV TV coverage suggests that there is some groundswell in spectating outside of the 6Ns that will keep Scottish rugby healthy. But that's a hope rather than expectation.

 

[fundy]

Maku Vunipola not available for England this weekend having flown back from Tonga via Hong Kong and hence been asked to self isolate for 14 days.

Rumoured to have been at Saracens training in St Albans today!


Will Macpherson
@willis_macp
Mako Vunipola - in self-isolation as coronavirus precaution according to England - was in St Albans training with Saracens today. Interesting club and country row after his return from Tonga via Hong Kong.

 

[GB72]

Maku Vunipola not available for England this weekend having flown back from Tonga via Hong Kong and hence been asked to self isolate for 14 days.

Rumoured to have been at Saracens training in St Albans today!


Will Macpherson
@willis_macp
Mako Vunipola - in self-isolation as coronavirus precaution according to England - was in St Albans training with Saracens today. Interesting club and country row after his return from Tonga via Hong Kong.

Guessing an England call, Saracens can take that risk but England have players from a number of clubs to take into account. Still get the feeling that this weekend may be the end of the tournament this season anyway (unless France lose their Scotland then I can somehow see a few teams calling for matches to be played) with recent developments still not certain this weekend will go ahead

 

[Rooter]

Why not have a second division 6 nations? each year one goes up, one goes down. Enough national teams in Europe to do this! get it on the TV box, i would watch it all!

 

[GB72]

Why not have a second division 6 nations? each year one goes up, one goes down. Enough national teams in Europe to do this! get it on the TV box, i would watch it all!

There is a second tier tournament on at the moment, just no promotion or relegation. All down to money. without the 6 Nations income I suspect rugby in Italy would pretty much collapse. Then you have the issue of what happens if one of the original 5 Nations had a bad season. They would have serious issues playing in a lower tier tournament.

Plus, as always the BBC (and Sky in this case as well) have no interest in showing anything but the prime events. I would be more than happy to see any contract to show the 6 nations obligating at least extended highlights coverage of the tier 2 matches.

This is what wound me up about the post world cup outcry to have Japan involved in everything. Northern hemisphere needs to focus on involving Georgia, Germany, Spain, Russia etc first. England are bad for not playing many matches away from Tier 1 opponents but not as bad as New Zealand who want a guaranteed £1 million before they will even think about getting on a plane to play someone and the lack of support for the pacific island teams from whom they pinch a number of their best players is a disgrace.

 

[Val]

I can see the SA argument about time zones but does it detract the six nations, or give the sides to play a top southern hemisphere team more regularly and look to improve. Are SA contracted into their current tournament and if so when does this run out?

The time zone is a red herring, there are already 2 SA clubs playing in the Pro14 and they make it work very easily

 

[Val]

Putting the Six Nations behind a Sky or other paywall I think could severely damage the game in Scotland. It's not (in my experience) a game that has a natural Scottish following - and the interest is only really generated by the Six Nations with casual interested viewers watching the the competition (mostly perhaps the England game... ) and getting enough enthusiasm from doing so to go to Murrayfield to see what the atmosphere is like in the ground - and then a small % of those that 'get it' then start going to Glasgow or Edinburgh matches.

I fear putting the Six Nations behind a paywall will you lose so many of the very casual viewer. After all has not putting The Open behind a paywall been cited as one factor that has led to a drop off in interest in golf in the country.

Sorry, but that is absolute nonsense. The pro game is already behind a paywall on Premier sports and numbers of spectators in Scotland continue to grow.

 

[Val]

Why not have a second division 6 nations? each year one goes up, one goes down. Enough national teams in Europe to do this! get it on the TV box, i would watch it all!

That would be like turkeys voting for Christmas, Italy and Scotland would never agree to it. Georgia as a rugby nation are the best of the rest in European terms and are still a fair bit behind Italy

 

[Val]

I am in 2 minds about the paywall issue. Yes, there is a harm to the game with less people seeing those England matches but, as with other sports, the BBC does nothing to help the game outside of this tournament. Club matches are barely mentioned on the news, coverage on 5 live is bumped to sports extra for even the lowest of football matches, Rugby Special or any sort of highlights package is long gone and it is getting people to club games that is important, you can fill Twickenham very easily but it is away from international level that coverage is needed. I have always felt that any deal agreed to show the crown jewels should be tied to an agreement to cover the less prestigious areas of the sport.

BT do a magic job covering rugby. Enough to warrant my subscription money

 

[GB72]

BT do a magic job covering rugby. Enough to warrant my subscription money

Totally agree. Great coverage and plenty of matches to choose from over the weekend, pretty much every European match on. It is superb. sky has so little rugby now that I ditched the sports channels. cannot see why BT do not go for the 6 nations, they are already building a reputation as the rugby channel and if they could get the 6 nations and autumn internationals, they would have enough to start a BT rugby channel and I would happily subscribe.

 

[Val]

Totally agree. Great coverage and plenty of matches to choose from over the weekend, pretty much every European match on. It is superb. sky has so little rugby now that I ditched the sports channels. cannot see why BT do not go for the 6 nations, they are already building a reputation as the rugby channel and if they could get the 6 nations and autumn internationals, they would have enough to start a BT rugby channel and I would happily subscribe.

Was desperate for BT to pick up the Pro14 too, in saying that Premier sports do a decent job, every game shown live and on demand for 7 days afterwards. Also do a 1 hour review show. Not bad for £100 a year

 

[GB72]

Sorry, but that is absolute nonsense. The pro game is already behind a paywall on Premier sports and numbers of spectators in Scotland continue to grow.

Part of that is, I suspect, because that means that the rugby is at least on somewhere. Not sure how it works with local TV up there but if it were not for BT/Sky, there would be no rugby at club level of TV in England. BBC ditched the Sunday evening rugby special and do not even mention results on the national news. At least with pay TV you can watch it somewhere and with BT perhaps convert a few who signed up to watch the football coverage but then catch the rugby as there is no live football at 3.00 on a Saturday.

 

[GB72]

Was desperate for BT to pick up the Pro14 too, in saying that Premier sports do a decent job, every game shown live and on demand for 7 days afterwards. Also do a 1 hour review show. Not bad for £100 a year

I suppose the issue with picking up the Pro 14 as well without a dedicated rugby channel is that you would have to reduce some of the Premiership coverage due to timing of matches. That said, I would love to be able to watch some of Pro 14 (oh and is they could get super rugby as well for my Saturday morning fix as well, that would be great)