World Handicap System (WHS)

[backwoodsman]

It makes sense to me that the HI on the graph is the HI applicable to the relevant round. Because.... the score differential is calculated based on the HI used to play the round. So, on any vertical line, you get two dots, one showing the differential, and one showing the HI by which it was calculated. Also makes sense to me that your HI for the next round (ie any new one) does not appear on the graph until after you've played it. It's simple enough to look at your current HI your "Summary" page

 

[Mozza14]

It makes sense to me that the HI on the graph is the HI applicable to the relevant round. Because.... the score differential is calculated based on the HI used to play the round. So, on any vertical line, you get two dots, one showing the differential, and one showing the HI by which it was calculated. Also makes sense to me that your HI for the next round (ie any new one) does not appear on the graph until after you've played it. It's simple enough to look at your current HI your "Summary" page

Completely incorrect I am afraid.

 

[Mozza14]

It makes sense to me that the HI on the graph is the HI applicable to the relevant round. Because.... the score differential is calculated based on the HI used to play the round. So, on any vertical line, you get two dots, one showing the differential, and one showing the HI by which it was calculated. Also makes sense to me that your HI for the next round (ie any new one) does not appear on the graph until after you've played it. It's simple enough to look at your current HI your "Summary" page

You have played that round (the latest differential is on the graph) and the associated HI it produced isn't on the graph. All your scores and differentials are present. In effect you are agreeing with me.

 

[Mozza14]

The graph for me is merely an indication of how my HI is trending, up or down.
Next time I play a qualifier or a casual round the two numbers that will have any significance are 3.1 my current HI and 74 which is my 20th score so depending on where I play I'm fairly certain any thing over 74 will result in HI going up
Having played under the system for 6 years, yes I do have a better insight than most but I'll repeat what I said a while ago, possibly before you joined the forum, when we moved to NZ we hated the system for about 3 months but then got it and embraced it.

I agree with that. Take my own example. My Current HI is 6.2 which is 0.8 above the last HI of 5.4 shown on my graph. So my HI is trending rapidly upwards but looking at the graph it is not as apparent as it should be. Why exclude the most relevant figure?

I have no problem with WHS. I think it is more responsive and I have monitored it carefully. I do have a problem with the output which I believe is both confusing and misleading. On an associated note the 'friends' facility also displays the previous HI and not the current ! Why?

 

[backwoodsman]

Completely incorrect I am afraid.

Ok, yes, I got this bit wrong (ie about the HI being involved with the score differential calculation).

But it still makes sense to me that the differential and the handicap index applicable to that game are aligned. And that the new HI arising from that game (if indeed it has actually changed) is shown separately - because it will apply to a game yet to be played. After all, our old results sheet (at our place anyway) had your score etc as well as the H/C applicable at the time. Ok, it also showed the resulting change - in point ones etc - but the principal figure was the Handicap played to in the round .

 

[Mozza14]

Ok, yes, I got this bit wrong (ie about the HI being involved with the score differential calculation).

But it still makes sense to me that the differential and the handicap index applicable to that game are aligned. And that the new HI arising from that game (if indeed it has actually changed) is shown separately - because it will apply to a game yet to be played. After all, our old results sheet (at our place anyway) had your score etc as well as the H/C applicable at the time. Ok, it also showed the resulting change - in point ones etc - but the principal figure was the Handicap played to in the round .

The correlation between the two lines on the graph is far stronger by matching the last differential against the HI it produced. Any HI on the graph is derived from the best 8 scores from 20 (for a full history) To show a top 8 differential and mark it, but not show how it moved the HI is not serving the purpose of having the graph imho.

 

[Mozza14]

Ok, yes, I got this bit wrong (ie about the HI being involved with the score differential calculation).

But it still makes sense to me that the differential and the handicap index applicable to that game are aligned. And that the new HI arising from that game (if indeed it has actually changed) is shown separately - because it will apply to a game yet to be played. After all, our old results sheet (at our place anyway) had your score etc as well as the H/C applicable at the time. Ok, it also showed the resulting change - in point ones etc - but the principal figure was the Handicap played to in the round .

I think you are really describing the production of 'results'. The WHS Portal is there to store fixed data, such as Course Rating and Slope (both per tee) and then to apply variable data, the adjusted score and the PCC in order to create a differential for each round. The end game is the production of a daily new Handicap Index from an averaging process. The portal is not involved in results and the calculation of the daily Index does not use the HI, the CH or even the playing handicap.

The results production lies outside of all this and is generally being delivered by the ISV's. V1 and HDID in my Club's case.

I can see why people are confused and are strugglling to see the distinction but it has been made worse by how England Golf /DotGolf have specified the table and graphs. If you accept the purpose of the Portal is to create a HI and then not to track its current value in a table or graph is very weird in my mind.

The simple remedy is to push each HI back one place in the table and graphs and everything is then aligned.

 

[Mozza14]

Conversly when we came back from NZ I found the HDID format confusing ?, it's the index under which that historical round was played under, make perfect sense to me ??.

May I ask what you found confusing?

The results page in HDID showed score less handicap (rounded) = Net Score. It then also showed the resulting Handicap to one decimal point. I found that informative.

The handicap record page showed for each date : CSS, Differential = Score -CSS- handicap, the adjustment to handicap, the new handicap to one decimal point and finally the rounded figure to be carried forward. I can't see any difficulty with that.

What did actually you actually want to see different?

 

[upsidedown]

May I ask what you found confusing?

The results page in HDID showed score less handicap (rounded) = Net Score. It then also showed the resulting Handicap to one decimal point. I found that informative.

The handicap record page showed for each date : CSS, Differential = Score -CSS, the adjustment to handicap, the new handicap to one decimal point and finally the rounded figure to be carried forward. I can't see any difficulty with that.

What did actually you actually want to see different?

As I play a lot of Open events HDID doesn't show my results.
For example in Sept this year in HDID I played at home course, made buffer and handicap was 4, next shown result my handicap is 5.
Because I'd played an Open and not buffered I'd gone up.
Under WHS that result is now shown as it was in NZ as you could put any card in from any course you played.
That was the system I was used to and understood so found it confusing that not all my scores where not shown

 

[Mozza14]

As I play a lot of Open events HDID doesn't show my results.
For example in Sept this year in HDID I played at home course, made buffer and handicap was 4, next shown result my handicap is 5.
Because I'd played an Open and not buffered I'd gone up.
Under WHS that result is now shown as it was in NZ as you could put any card in from any course you played.
That was the system I was used to and understood so found it confusing that not all my scores where not shown

I can see that entirely. WHS is clearly better for tracking all performance.

You have, however, changed the topic there. We were discussing why you felt showing an adjustment to your handicap against the date and score that produced it, was confusing?

 

[upsidedown]

No I said I found the format confusing. I'll explain, the below is what I was used, all the relavant info readily to hand, as I like to track my handicap. Now in HDID there was no facility for that and you had to investigate further.
I should have said frustration instead of confusion, as having been away for 6 years HDID was so far behind Dotgolf it was unreal.
Does that make sense?

 

[jim8flog]

No I said I found the format confusing. I'll explain, the below is what I was used, all the relavant info readily to hand, as I like to track my handicap. Now in HDID there was no facility for that and you had to investigate further.
I should have said frustration instead of confusion, as having been away for 6 years HDID was so far behind Dotgolf it was unreal.
Does that make sense?
View attachment 33451View attachment 33451

With the WHS all that info will on your account on England Golf, just click on the score for any round submitted (post November 2nd).

We have IG and we can see the info in that format on there.

 

[Mozza14]

No I said I found the format confusing. I'll explain, the below is what I was used, all the relavant info readily to hand, as I like to track my handicap. Now in HDID there was no facility for that and you had to investigate further.
I should have said frustration instead of confusion, as having been away for 6 years HDID was so far behind Dotgolf it was unreal.
Does that make sense?

Yes, I think WHS tracks performance and reflects this in the Handicap Index well.

I calculate your Index at 3.8 following the last round shown. All I am saying is that the table would be so much better if that 3.8 was shown against the last differential (one of your best 8). I can see we have adopted the same software but I still think it could display the current HI and graphs better.

Nice golf by the way.

 

[upsidedown]

With the WHS all that info will on your account on England Golf, just click on the score for any round submitted (post November 2nd).

We have IG and we can see the info in that format on there.

Alas not on HDID unless I'm missing something !

Yes, I think WHS tracks performance and reflects this in the Handicap Index well.
I calculate your Index at 3.8 following the last round shown. All I am saying is that the table would be so much better if that 3.8 was shown against the last differential (one of your best 8). I can see we have adopted the same software but I still think it could display the current HI and graphs better.

Nice golf by the way.

Alas not my golf but my mate's but I now have bragging rights as mine is lower than his under the same system Been back in Blighty for 6 years now

 

[Old Skier]

Your missing something as far as I can see unless I have misunderstand what you said because the exact same is shown on my results in HDID

 

[upsidedown]

Your missing something as far as I can see unless I have misunderstand what you said because the exact same is shown on my results in HDID

Yes it is now with the WHS portal but under the old Congu on HDID I had to dig deeper to see the CSS etc which is what i was referring to in answer to Mozza14 and the lack of Open results

 

[jonfSAOLGC]

Edit: Had a chat with our Society Sec this morning. Will continue to administer own handicaps next season and not adopt any changes. Although a note is going out asking members to "do the decent thing" if they are playing home course off fewer shots than they get on Soc Days! What are other Societies doing???

We currently only have 3 members who don't have an official handicap index, so for those I'm going to do my own WHS calculations from the past to work out a current index and then going forward calculate as per WHS, for all those with official index we are just using that and then plan is to put all our society scores into the WHS system

 

[Old Skier]

We currently only have 3 members who don't have an official handicap index, so for those I'm going to do my own WHS calculations from the past to work out a current index and then going forward calculate as per WHS, for all those with official index we are just using that and then plan is to put all our society scores into the WHS system

We will use the slope of the course we play at as all but 2 of mine have an index, for the 2 I'll do the same as you.

 

[IanMcC]

Playing Handicap, which is what they are, is always a whole number.
6.2a The calculated Playing Handicap is rounded to the nearest whole number, with .5 rounded upwards

Just created a dummy comp on ClubV1. Mixed Texas Scramble. The text says it uses the new 25/20/15/10 format. Created a team, and the handicap was to one decimal place.

 

[rulefan]

Just created a dummy comp on ClubV1. Mixed Texas Scramble. The text says it uses the new 25/20/15/10 format. Created a team, and the handicap was to one decimal place.

Are you in Scotland? That would explain it.