World Handicap System (WHS)

[nickjdavis]

Much but not all of this apparently was a problem with data from the ISVs not successfully updating the CDH

.

Is it really the case that clubs were not publishing their scores to the CDH on a regular basis? I know that whenever we ran a comp and entered the Scores in HandicapMaster, we would automatically "publish the scores to internet" which meant...

1) send the scores to Masterscoreboard (equivalent to HDID)
2) send the scores to the CDH

I do find it somewhat odd that vast swathes of handicap committees have been seemingly delinquent in their processing and management of their players handicaps in respect of the CDH system.

I guess its like anything though...we are only hearing about the problems....what we are not hearing about are the vast number of clubs who actually do not have any issues with missing scores, corrupt tee data etc etc. Maybe all the "noise" is actually only coming from a small percentage of clubs and for most clubs the transition has gone relatively smoothly.

To be honest, whilst the CDH was a good idea I think it was only "pushed" in a relatively half-hearted manner as there was very little player benefit with the exception of perhaps not needing a handicap certificate....in theory you could just go to a club, give them your CDH number and they would be able to look you up and verify your ability....but this never really happened. I remember going to play at Woodhall Spa just several months after the CDH was launched, armed with my England Golf membership card. On arrival to sign in I was asked for evidence of my handicap, handed over my card and they just looked at me and said that it was no good....they had no facility to look up my CDH number or even swipe the card (it has a magnetic stripe)...they wanted paper evidence of my handicap!!

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

Why would they need to review the criteria?
Players will either be in or out, for every player who drops out, there will be another who is now in.

You are quite right of course, anyone off 19 previously will likely be 17/18 now, and thus eligible to replace me!

This just means no knockout golf for me, as I’m about the 50th lowest handicap in the club it’s not like I’m sniffing around the scratch team!!

 

[rulefan]

Is it really the case that clubs were not publishing their scores to the CDH on a regular basis? I know that whenever we ran a comp and entered the Scores in HandicapMaster, we would automatically "publish the scores to internet" which meant...

1) send the scores to Masterscoreboard (equivalent to HDID)
2) send the scores to the CDH

I do find it somewhat odd that vast swathes of handicap committees have been seemingly delinquent in their processing and management of their players handicaps in respect of the CDH system.

The issue was that although the club had clicked 'publish' and the ISV had seemingly done just that, the scores were not getting through to the CDH. That was the situation we had with V1. The records were in the V1 audit log but not in CDH. Somehow or other I gather, V1 resent them to either CDH or WHS. Didn't get involved in the detail but the player involved has now got the correct data and Index in WHS.

It would seem that the second paragraph in an EG statement below is proceeding

‘MISSING’ SCORES

If any scores (before 2 November 2020) from a golfer’s playing record do not appear on the WHS system this is down to the fact that the information was never transferred to the CDH via the club’s software.

Golfers can ask that the home club posts these directly onto the England Golf WHS Golf Club Platform. We are also in conversation with club software providers to facilitate a transfer of ‘missing’ scores which only appear on club records.

 

[Imurg]

48 points won two weeks ago, 47 won last week. Any guesses for tomorrow? Will we see the first 50+ points winner?

What have you got to shoot, gross, to score that?

 

[Imurg]

62

11 under..? Don't know what you're worrying about..

 

[Swango1980]

Why would they need to review the criteria?
Players will either be in or out, for every player who drops out, there will be another who is now in.

They'll need to review the criteria because they'll need to decide if any handicap limitations are still doing what they wanted them to do in the first place. The goal posts have changed.

For example, a club may have had a competition where they had a 28.4 handicap limit, and for whatever reason felt they didn't want anybody getting more shots than that (or whatever other limit they set). However, a person who was just within that acceptable limit previously would be well within that limit if it applied to Index (their Index could typically expected to be be around 23.0 or a bit higher, on a course of Slope 140). On the same course, a player with a 28.4 Index would have a course handicap of 35, which could be unacceptably high based on previous criteria.

Our county have a handicap league, in which the maximum handicap allowed was 17. I'll be interested to see if this is reviewed for next year. If not, golfers will have a course handicap of 23 at the hardest courses in the league, which is a lot higher than the county were previously comfortable with.

 

[jim8flog]

Why would they need to review the criteria?
Players will either be in or out, for every player who drops out, there will be another who is now in.

You are right the organisers could simply say maximum or minimum Handicap Index at the same number as the UHS handicap

The recommendation for a switch to handicap index is on the simple basis that every player knows exactly where they stand with regard to competition entry.

I.e a player will not have to look at the slope for the course where the competition will be held and work out their Course Handicap for the course* and tee* to decide if they will be eligible to enter.

*By choosing Handicap Index the course does not have to state which tee will be used on advertising posters and entry forms.

As to Johnny Gutteridge's comments it as comp which involves many courses. Using Handicap Index it means that players will not have to work out their Course handicap on all the courses to see if they can enter as he says he would be allowed to enter on 90% of the courses if it simply said minimum handicap for entry is 5 without specifying if that is course or index.

 

[rulefan]

I think most country authorities are recommending the Index.

 

[evemccc]

Just after WHS was launched there were people posting their new handicaps that showed ‘interesting jumps’ from what they had on CONGU....has that been rectified or is it still throwing out bizarre results?

I have only just looked and seen my jumped from 20.5 to 15.4...I’ve never played a comp and had only ever submitted a couple of Sup Scores since getting my handicap this summer...one had made the CONGU Index go up by 0.1 and the second made it go down by 0.6

Never shot anything like 15 so quite surprised to see a 5 shot jump

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Just after WHS was launched there were people posting their new handicaps that showed ‘interesting jumps’ from what they had on CONGU....has that been rectified or is it still throwing out bizarre results?

I have only just looked and seen my jumped from 20.5 to 15.4...I’ve never played a comp and had only ever submitted a couple of Sup Scores since getting my handicap this summer...one had made the CONGU Index go up by 0.1 and the second made it go down by 0.6

Never shot anything like 15 so quite surprised to see a 5 shot jump

it depends how many cards you have put in, there is then a sliding scale of the average. It’s likely looking at your lowest score or 2, adjusting it accordingly, and then churning out 15.4.

I think, by and large, the system is up and running for the majority and what you see is correct

 

[rulefan]

Just after WHS was launched there were people posting their new handicaps that showed ‘interesting jumps’ from what they had on CONGU....has that been rectified or is it still throwing out bizarre results?

I have only just looked and seen my jumped from 20.5 to 15.4...I’ve never played a comp and had only ever submitted a couple of Sup Scores since getting my handicap this summer...one had made the CONGU Index go up by 0.1 and the second made it go down by 0.6

Never shot anything like 15 so quite surprised to see a 5 shot jump

Averaging isn't used until you have at least 6 scores. For the first 3 it uses the best.
But remember, it is not simply the difference between gross score and course rating but that figure has to be de-sloped. ie multiplied by (113/slope)

 

[hovis]

Question please
Can you enter rounds and do they count under pick and place rules and par 3 matts?

 

[nickjdavis]

Just after WHS was launched there were people posting their new handicaps that showed ‘interesting jumps’ from what they had on CONGU....has that been rectified or is it still throwing out bizarre results?

I have only just looked and seen my jumped from 20.5 to 15.4...I’ve never played a comp and had only ever submitted a couple of Sup Scores since getting my handicap this summer...one had made the CONGU Index go up by 0.1 and the second made it go down by 0.6

Never shot anything like 15 so quite surprised to see a 5 shot jump

If your second score made it go down by 0.6 then that would have been 2 shots below SSS under the old Congu methodology. So playing off 21, your gross differential would have been 19. If your course slope slope is, I dunno....say 124 then your de-sloped gross differential will be 19/124*113 = 17.3. If you only have 3 or fewer scores in your record then the system will use your best score (i.e. best de-sloped differential) and subtract two strokes to get your index ...so my "totally off the head numbers/assumptions about your course" (and assumption that this was your best score) leads to a calculation where your index is going to be 15.3.

 

[rulefan]

Question please
Can you enter rounds and do they count under pick and place rules and par 3 matts?

Between the authorised dates, Preferred Lies (within 6"), fairway mats and tee mats are permitted.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Finally got my H.H. sorted, the inital 4.7 is now up to 5.7.

Sad reflection of my game the last 2 dodgy back affected seasons but if I stay healthy that will come down loads and should register a win early season if I play anywhere near my best golf.

No doubt I have just jinxed myself

Roll on Wednesday when my mate and I who where both off 5 under CONGU resume playing. Him 2.7 now, me 5.7 so I think I am strong favourite if I claim my shots

 

[apj0524]

Some help please regarding the calculation of PH please.

Under current restrictions we have a role up Tee Booking Stableford on Saturday so players will need to fill out their card rather than rely on the pr-printed card.

I have communicated that they only need to have the the CH on the card but many will want to know their PH for the comp so they can keep a tally of their points.

So I want to give them reminder how to the calculate this and ie HI x (Slope/Std Slope) = CH x 95% = PH but I am sure I have read in one of the Handicap Rules Book that that the rounding occurs ONLY when you calculate the PH not when you calculate the CH and then again when your PH.

Am I correct that rounding is only used after calculating the PH and if I am can you point me in the direction of the R&R or CONGU rule

Thanks

 

[BubbaP]

Some help please regarding the calculation of PH please.

Under current restrictions we have a role up Tee Booking Stableford on Saturday so players will need to fill out their card rather than rely on the pr-printed card.

I have communicated that they only need to have the the CH on the card but many will want to know their PH for the comp so they can keep a tally of their points.

So I want to give them reminder how to the calculate this and ie HI x (Slope/Std Slope) = CH x 95% = PH but I am sure I have read in one of the Handicap Rules Book that that the rounding occurs ONLY when you calculate the PH not when you calculate the CH and then again when your PH.

Am I correct that rounding is only used after calculating the PH and if I am can you point me in the direction of the R&R or CONGU rule

Thanks

I can't, but think the R&A and EG calculator give out a rounded CH.
I think I read somewhere that there was some uncertainty in Scotland.

Edit, may have been this
https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/t...ved-in-admin-at-your-club.107009/post-2255720

 

[Vikingman]

It used to be that your handicap must be on the card in competition golf.

What is it now, handicap index? course handicap? Competition handicap?

 

[2blue]

It used to be that your handicap must be on the card in competition golf.

What is it now, handicap index? course handicap? Competition handicap?

I've looked but failed to see where this requirement might be, so very interested.

 

[rulefan]

It used to be that your handicap must be on the card in competition golf.

What is it now, handicap index? course handicap? Competition handicap?

G2.1b/1 Handicap On The Scorecard
To avoid a DQ under Rule 3.3b (4) of the Rules of Golf the player must put his/her Course Handicap on the scorecard (see Interpretation 3.3b (4)/1 of the Rules of Golf). This is expressed as an integer and represents the number of strokes the player receives for handicap purposes for both Competition scores and General Play returns.

It is the responsibility of the Committee to apply the handicap allowance for any stroke play competition; in practice this will done by the software. Players need to be able to access their Handicap Index and then refer to a relevant look-up table to obtain their Course Handicap for the tees used.

Whilst not mandatory, CONGU® recommend that space for the Handicap Index and Playing Handicap is also on the scorecard.