World Handicap System (WHS)

[jim8flog]

Im telling our members to ask the pro shop to initial card before they go out and phot the card and sent it to me. Not ideal and don’t expect many to bother for now and hopefully the apps will allow for this in the future.

IGs App allows this and it is part of the process. Mind when we were running the app in the summer there were a lot who failed to do it.

 

[PJ87]

My handicap sec sent email out in week saying our slope has to be wrong because we are harder than other courses around and etc

So emailed him back the points on here from @Liverpoolphil @rulefan etc who have explained how slope works and how it isn't difficultly it's the difference between scratch and 18 handicapper etc

Was the information from golf England poor? Or is my handicap sec a bit missinformed

 

[Deleted member 3432]

My handicap sec sent email out in week saying our slope has to be wrong because we are harder than other courses around and etc

So emailed him back the points on here from @Liverpoolphil @rulefan etc who have explained how slope works and how it isn't difficultly it's the difference between scratch and 18 handicapper etc

Was the information from golf England poor? Or is my handicap sec a bit missinformed

A bit like the rules of golf, why keep the explanation simple when you can make it long winded and confusing and then more people get involved all with different interpretations.....

 

[Deleted member 15344]

My handicap sec sent email out in week saying our slope has to be wrong because we are harder than other courses around and etc

So emailed him back the points on here from @Liverpoolphil @rulefan etc who have explained how slope works and how it isn't difficultly it's the difference between scratch and 18 handicapper etc

Was the information from golf England poor? Or is my handicap sec a bit missinformed

Sorry but why did the HC sec email out to members that they got the slope wrong based on his own opinion ? Is he a coirse assessor ?

Also what is he judging that makes him believe the course is “harder”

https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/slope-rating-new-golf-handicap-system/

 

[PJ87]

Sorry but why did the HC sec email out to members that they got the slope wrong based on his own opinion ? Is he a coirse assessor ?

Also what is he judging that makes him believe the course is “harder”

https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/slope-rating-new-golf-handicap-system/

Additional Handicap Issue…
We also have an issue out with Gemma Hunter at England Golf (see You Tube - WHS) questioning our allocated slope index’s for the North East Course.
Off the White Tees we have been allocated 121
An average course in GB&I according to England Golf is 125
As the Pro’s in our PGA event in August failed over 2 days to break par, we are asking Gemma if indeed with have been assessed correctly.
Additionally looking at Slope Index’s of local courses, it is apparent either ours or their slope index’s are wrong.
We again await resolution.

That's part of the email

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Additional Handicap Issue…
We also have an issue out with Gemma Hunter at England Golf (see You Tube - WHS) questioning our allocated slope index’s for the North East Course.
Off the White Tees we have been allocated 121
An average course in GB&I according to England Golf is 125
As the Pro’s in our PGA event in August failed over 2 days to break par, we are asking Gemma if indeed with have been assessed correctly.
Additionally looking at Slope Index’s of local courses, it is apparent either ours or their slope index’s are wrong.
We again await resolution.

That's part of the email

Irrelevant what the PGA pros scores in a single event and certainly wouldn’t judge against others - each course is judged in isolation.

I can’t understand his rationale emailing out the members - if there is an issue with the course assessment then sort it out in the background. And is it just down to his own personal opinion that he thinks it’s harder ? Has he had a course assessor come round ? Did he go around with them ?

 

[PJ87]

Irrelevant what the PGA pros scores in a single event and certainly wouldn’t judge against others - each course is judged in isolation.

I can’t understand his rationale emailing out the members - if there is an issue with the course assessment then sort it out in the background. And is it just down to his own personal opinion that he thinks it’s harder ? Has he had a course assessor come round ? Did he go around with them ?

I have to admit I was shocked at our rating compared but I decided to research into how they rate them (ie we don't have water accross fairways etc or much to fire over)

Then yourself and rule fan explained slope isn't difficultly it's the difference between a scratch player and what a bogey player would score

Plus if not s single pro broke par well our sss was 74 .. the winning score for the event over 2 days was level so if they didn't break par then suggests level both days .. which is 4 shots over 2 days lower than the sss?

Surely do a bit of research before firing off emails to the members .. notice my reply to him explaining about slope was ignore ?

 

[Old Skier]

IGs App allows this and it is part of the process. Mind when we were running the app in the summer there were a lot who failed to do it.

We can do it as a home club but the HDID app doesn’t have the ability to select other clubs.

 

[Old Skier]

As above, IG has the facility to pre-register for a "general play" round:
View attachment 33758View attachment 33759

Where is the ability to enter scores from an away club?

 

[Old Skier]

Additional Handicap Issue…
We also have an issue out with Gemma Hunter at England Golf (see You Tube - WHS) questioning our allocated slope index’s for the North East Course.
Off the White Tees we have been allocated 121
An average course in GB&I according to England Golf is 125
As the Pro’s in our PGA event in August failed over 2 days to break par, we are asking Gemma if indeed with have been assessed correctly.
Additionally looking at Slope Index’s of local courses, it is apparent either ours or their slope index’s are wrong.
We again await resolution.

That's part of the email

Average course is 125, were did that come from, it’s 115 according to the WHS information.

 

[Old Skier]

I have to admit I was shocked at our rating compared but I decided to research into how they rate them (ie we don't have water accross fairways etc or much to fire over)

Then yourself and rule fan explained slope isn't difficultly it's the difference between a scratch player and what a bogey player would score

Plus if not s single pro broke par well our sss was 74 .. the winning score for the event over 2 days was level so if they didn't break par then suggests level both days .. which is 4 shots over 2 days lower than the sss?

Surely do a bit of research before firing off emails to the members .. notice my reply to him explaining about slope was ignore ?

He obviously hasn’t taken all factors into consideration or he didn’t bother going to any of the WHS briefings. our slope is greater than both Saunton courses and lower than Royal North Devon.

I doubt if anyone around here would say our course is harder than Saunton yet as a player, I find RND easier than ours.

Some people seem to take their course slope ratings as a personal slur.

 

[Green Man]

I have to admit I was shocked at our rating compared but I decided to research into how they rate them (ie we don't have water accross fairways etc or much to fire over)

Then yourself and rule fan explained slope isn't difficultly it's the difference between a scratch player and what a bogey player would score

Plus if not s single pro broke par well our sss was 74 .. the winning score for the event over 2 days was level so if they didn't break par then suggests level both days .. which is 4 shots over 2 days lower than the sss?

Surely do a bit of research before firing off emails to the members .. notice my reply to him explaining about slope was ignore ?

What are the course ratings? These should tell you which course is the most difficult.

 

[PJ87]

What are the course ratings? These should tell you which course is the most difficult.

And since this was explained to me I check that now

Ours 74.2

Others I looked at 69.4

 

[Foxholer]

What are the course ratings? These should tell you which course is the most difficult.

Define 'difficult'! Par? Course Reting? Slope?

 

[PJ87]

He obviously hasn’t taken all factors into consideration or he didn’t bother going to any of the WHS briefings. our slope is greater than both Saunton courses and lower than Royal North Devon.

I doubt if anyone around here would say our course is harder than Saunton yet as a player, I find RND easier than ours.

Some people seem to take their course slope ratings as a personal slur.

I blame golf England for that a bit because they have made it so slope is only thing that works out your course handicap on the day

I don't understand why we use the old handicap formula that USA used pre WHS when the majority of the world uses the new formula

 

[Old Skier]

Define 'difficult'!

Ones where they have dress regs.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

the IG app is supposed to be developed for it to use GPS - so first it is only allowing you enter cards when at your home card but the plan for the APP is to use it for all clubs so you can put cards in

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm sure they'll sort that out and iron out any bugs well in advance of the new handicap system coming in..... ?

Yep it should be a nice smooth transition ?

 

[Swango1980]

I have to admit I was shocked at our rating compared but I decided to research into how they rate them (ie we don't have water accross fairways etc or much to fire over)

Then yourself and rule fan explained slope isn't difficultly it's the difference between a scratch player and what a bogey player would score

Plus if not s single pro broke par well our sss was 74 .. the winning score for the event over 2 days was level so if they didn't break par then suggests level both days .. which is 4 shots over 2 days lower than the sss?

Surely do a bit of research before firing off emails to the members .. notice my reply to him explaining about slope was ignore ?

Your handicap secretary seems to gave been misinformed, and sadly he sent out an email to all members committing himself to saying the slope was wrong, without any apparent knowledge as to what the slope is.

The fact scratch golfers struggle so much at your course actually lends itself to the possibility of having a low slope. Because, if it is tricky for them compared to most courses, but maybe not as relatively difficult for bogey golfers compared to other courses, then the relative difference between them is lower, thus lower slope. Still a difficult course, but it is the Course Rating (just like SSS before) that is the best number to look at when determining that absolute difficulty.

As others have said, so many people focus so much on Slope, and it would surprise me if most outside this forum simply think higher slope, harder course, end of. And if a course has a low slope, some take personal offence, hurts their pride, and try to tell anyone that listens it is wrong. I'd forgive them a bit, new system with more numbers to remember than the old one. But a handicap secretary should probably have had enough time by now to get a grasp of the basics.

 

[PJ87]

Your handicap secretary seems to gave been misinformed, and sadly he sent out an email to all members committing himself to saying the slope was wrong, without any apparent knowledge as to what the slope is.

The fact scratch golfers struggle so much at your course actually lends itself to the possibility of having a low slope. Because, if it is tricky for them compared to most courses, but maybe not as relatively difficult for bogey golfers compared to other courses, then the relative difference between them is lower, thus lower slope. Still a difficult course, but it is the Course Rating (just like SSS before) that is the best number to look at when determining that absolute difficulty.

As others have said, so many people focus so much on Slope, and it would surprise me if most outside this forum simply think higher slope, harder course, end of. And if a course has a low slope, some take personal offence, hurts their pride, and try to tell anyone that listens it is wrong. I'd forgive them a bit, new system with more numbers to remember than the old one. But a handicap secretary should probably have had enough time by now to get a grasp of the basics.

I sent him this
Hi xxx

I was looking into slope rating and confusion has reigned with how golf England has done the system. Slope isn't a rating of difficulty it's the difference between how a stratch golfer and bogey golfer would perform. So our slope could indeed be right because we punish stratch and bogey golfers equally. Also we don't have much water on course or fairway obstructions

What we in England are doing different from USA (and most of the world) is way we work out handicaps

We do slope/113 times index (the old way of doing things from the USA)

USA does the following now

Slope /113 times index plus (course rating - par)

Our course rating is 74.2 and our par is 72 (whites) which rates us much harder than courses in the local area. For example Brentwood is rated 69.4 off par 72 with slope 130 off yellows .. so mainly because of the course rating that we in England are incorrectly using

It's really frustrating that a world handicap system has been applied differently from the world lol

Hope this make sense lol it's taken me a while to get my head around this


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