World Handicap System (WHS)

[PJ87]

Well at least you started off with some kisses ?

Keep it polite ... Can't say oi idiot your misinforming the entire club.

 

[SammmeBee]

Yep it should be a nice smooth transition ?

I think it has been so far!

 

[PJ87]

With all this stuff changing now

What do I put on card for handicap? Do we just put our index and let the computer work it out.

Or do we have to work out then put that?

 

[fenwayrich]

With all this stuff changing now

What do I put on card for handicap? Do we just put our index and let the computer work it out.

Or do we have to work out then put that?

The card has to show the Course Handicap. It can show Index and Playing Handicap but they are not obligatory.

 

[PJ87]

The card has to show the Course Handicap. It can show Index and Playing Handicap but they are not obligatory.

So really in a comp we got to remember the 95% rule or whatever it is?

Lucky I use the app but many don't

 

[BubbaP]

So really in a comp we got to remember the 95% rule or whatever it is?

Lucky I use the app but many don't

Do you really need to remember though?
Just record the gross scores, let the comp take care of itself ?

 

[PJ87]

Do you really need to remember though?
Just record the gross scores, let the comp take care of itself ?

I'm thinking of those who don't use the app

So they show up and put their course handicap

If they forget the 95 rule their course handicap is wrong no? There for a NR?

 

[Old Skier]

I'm thinking of those who don't use the app

So they show up and put their course handicap

If they forget the 95 rule their course handicap is wrong no? There for a NR?

As long as YOU PUT YOUR COURSE HC on the card, that is all that is required. If you want to put YOR PLAYING HC or INDEX on, it’s up to you.

From a HC Sec point of view I personally don’t care about points, just put down the Gross scores and leave the maths to others.

 

[PJ87]

As long as YOU PUT YOUR COURSE HC on the card, that is all that is required. If you want to put YOR PLAYING HC or INDEX on, it’s up to you

Ah understood

Course handicap .. and the computer will auto deduct the 95% for playing handicap

 

[Old Skier]

and the computer will auto deduct the 95% for playing handicap

Providing the comp is set up properly

 

[PJ87]

Providing the comp is set up properly

Lol well let's see on that! If slope isn't understood let's see if the rest is

 

[rulefan]

I sent him this
Hi xxx


We do slope/113 times index (the old way of doing things from the USA)

USA does the following now

Slope /113 times index plus (course rating - par)

Please explain how Par or (CR - par) has anything to do with difficulty? And how either of the formulae makes any difference to your Stroke Differential (in effect, your resultant Handicap Index.

From what I see, the only reason for (CR - Par) is the idea of 36 points telling you something. But that gets knocked on the head once you apply the 95%.

 

[PJ87]

Please explain how Par or (CR - par) has anything to do with difficulty? And how either of the formulae makes any difference to your Stroke Differential (in effect, your resultant Handicap Index.

From what I see, the only reason for (CR - Par) is the idea of 36 points telling you something. But that gets knocked on the head once you apply the 95%.

Nothing to do with difficulty. Never said that the formula implies that

Just how the different course handicaps are calculated.

Nothing to do with index either just pointing out the difference in the formula.

If you included all the email in your little snippet you would notice I said
Our course rating is 74.2 and our par is 72 (whites) which rates us much harder than courses in the local area. For example Brentwood is rated 69.4 off par 72 with slope 130 off yellows ..

Still nobody has actually come up with a valid reason golf England think it's a good idea to not use Course rating in the course handicap formula when the rest of world does In a WORLD handicap system.

 

[Swango1980]

Nothing to do with difficulty. Never said that the formula implies that

Just how the different course handicaps are calculated.

Nothing to do with index either just pointing out the difference in the formula.

If you included all the email in your little snippet you would notice I said
Our course rating is 74.2 and our par is 72 (whites) which rates us much harder than courses in the local area. For example Brentwood is rated 69.4 off par 72 with slope 130 off yellows ..

Still nobody has actually come up with a valid reason golf England think it's a good idea to not use Course rating in the course handicap formula when the rest of world does In a WORLD handicap system.

Actually, England Golf sent me quite a long email explaining why they didn't include CR-Par in the Course Handicap calculation. I'll not dig it out as it was quite some time ago, but one reason was to do with golfers picking up too early on a hole in a Stableford competition when there is a big difference between CR and Par.

I understand the confusion golfers will have though, when they dont get extra shots on courses that are obviously harder (even white tees on a course which could be a few shots harder than yellows, yet similar slope). So, I'm still not fully convinced CR-Par should be omitted.

At any rate, the difference in ability of all golfers is still accounted for regardless of the methodology, so it shouldn't fall over on the main aspect of handicaps. Different parts of the world have different variations, however handicaps are still compatible unlike before (can't imagine that will effect too many people though).

 

[PJ87]

Actually, England Golf sent me quite a long email explaining why they didn't include CR-Par in the Course Handicap calculation. I'll not dig it out as it was quite some time ago, but one reason was to do with golfers picking up too early on a hole in a Stableford competition when there is a big difference between CR and Par.

I understand the confusion golfers will have though, when they dont get extra shots on courses that are obviously harder (even white tees on a course which could be a few shots harder than yellows, yet similar slope). So, I'm still not fully convinced CR-Par should be omitted.

At any rate, the difference in ability of all golfers is still accounted for regardless of the methodology, so it shouldn't fall over on the main aspect of handicaps. Different parts of the world have different variations, however handicaps are still compatible unlike before (can't imagine that will effect too many people though).

Fully correct in that last bit especially

I suspect golf England's reason is complete rubbish made up to support a decision that's been made rashly .. if it's a world handicap system it should be done the same full stop.

We have decided to be different for whatever reason and just adds a layer of confusion not needed

When I raised the point on FB group I got shouted down that it's world handcap clue is in name it's all same

Until I provided the evidence that it's different for us

Suddenly two people changed tune the rest sloped back into the shadows

 

[Swango1980]

Fully correct in that last bit especially

I suspect golf England's reason is complete rubbish made up to support a decision that's been made rashly .. if it's a world handicap system it should be done the same full stop.

We have decided to be different for whatever reason and just adds a layer of confusion not needed

When I raised the point on FB group I got shouted down that it's world handcap clue is in name it's all same

Until I provided the evidence that it's different for us

Suddenly two people changed tune the rest sloped back into the shadows

I guess the CR-Par bit is the major difference in terms of application. So, there is a major argument as to why doesn't the whole world just do the same thing. England Golf may have their reasoning, but does that mean they know more about it than the rest of the world? That would be quite an arrogant stance if it was taken. As we both agree, the inclusion of CR-Par would reduce confusion. Easy demonstration, a scratch golfer would get more shots at absolutely harder courses. Whereas now, they are off zero no matter the course. More than 90% of regular golfers, I suspect, would find that strange and confusing.

I'm also unsure why Scotland used Course Handicap to 1 decimal place, rest of UK to whole number. Again, why not just take a definitive position for the entire world?

In terms of submitting scores, there are differences in terms of what is and what isn't an Acceptable Round. I can sort of see the logic here, in terms of the mindset of golfers. It seems in USA they tend to hand in every score, make up a score if they pick up and to be frank, I reckon there are a few who have fairly dodgy handicaps as a result (they are represented by Trump, so if he is anything to go by....). In UK they obviously want to be more strict as to what sort of rounds truly represent a players handicap, and I personally agree with that. Although, I suspect over time we are more likely to tend towards the USA than them tend towards us in terms of what are Acceptable rounds.

 

[rulefan]

It was never expected to be exactly the same all over the world. The original USGA and R&A announcements made that clear.
eg Scotland has decided to use the unrounded CH in calculating the PH. England, Wales & Ireland have chosen to use the rounded figure.

 

[rulefan]

I understand the confusion golfers will have though, when they dont get extra shots on courses that are obviously harder (even white tees on a course which could be a few shots harder than yellows, yet similar slope).

How does CR-Par show that a course is easier or harder?
A high or low par tells you nothing and is entirely arbitrary. It doesn't even tell you the length of the course.

 

[PJ87]

I guess the CR-Par bit is the major difference in terms of application. So, there is a major argument as to why doesn't the whole world just do the same thing. England Golf may have their reasoning, but does that mean they know more about it than the rest of the world? That would be quite an arrogant stance if it was taken. As we both agree, the inclusion of CR-Par would reduce confusion. Easy demonstration, a scratch golfer would get more shots at absolutely harder courses. Whereas now, they are off zero no matter the course. More than 90% of regular golfers, I suspect, would find that strange and confusing.

I'm also unsure why Scotland used Course Handicap to 1 decimal place, rest of UK to whole number. Again, why not just take a definitive position for the entire world?

In terms of submitting scores, there are differences in terms of what is and what isn't an Acceptable Round. I can sort of see the logic here, in terms of the mindset of golfers. It seems in USA they tend to hand in every score, make up a score if they pick up and to be frank, I reckon there are a few who have fairly dodgy handicaps as a result (they are represented by Trump, so if he is anything to go by....). In UK they obviously want to be more strict as to what sort of rounds truly represent a players handicap, and I personally agree with that. Although, I suspect over time we are more likely to tend towards the USA than them tend towards us in terms of what are Acceptable rounds.

It's just like everything we do in England ..we have to be world beating ? can never just use something that's successful elsewhere


When my index came back it meant I play off same handicap I was playing off before at my course so was happy and made sense

It was only when I at a look at easier courses (Cr of 69 and 70 when we are 74) and I was playing off 2 shots higher I was so confused

But then I didn't stand a chance of understanding without research by reaching out on here (thanks to everyone) as our handicap hasn't even told us what to fill in the card on comps for example

 

[PJ87]

How does CR-Par show that a course is easier or harder?
A high or low par tells you nothing and is entirely arbitrary. It doesn't even tell you the length of the course.

Quite simple . If you course rating - par of a 74 you get 2 knowing that course is 2 harder than par .. a 69-72 is -3 so is 3 easier than par.