WHS working well for me

[wjemather]

Your bit in bold regarding competition purposes has subsequently been clarified with the words, "...ensures a fair and equal game when playing with or competing against one another" and this includes casual, social and informal golf where scores are not being submitted for handicap assessment and adjustment. There are not, as far as I know, differing rules of handicapping for golf where scores are not being submitted for handicap assessment and when the scores are being submitted for handicap assessment. I have seen only one such set of Rules of Handicapping adopted by England Golf and these rules apply to organised club competition golf and casual, social and informal golf, in the same way, regarding what Playing Handicap should be used according to the chosen format.

"It is only used for competition purposes" requires no clarification, and none is given. Your refusal to ever admit you were mistaken is tiresome. I'm done.

 

[IanMcC]

Just checked my handicap record, last round was yesterday 30/9/21 and 20th was 15/8/21 that's just over 6 weeks, and on occasions it is less, normal for me is 5-6 weeks. Think the average golfer for 20 rounds here is 12 weeks.

6 weeks seems exceptionally fast to me. I reckon I play quite a bit (we have 3 acceptable comps per week in the summer), but my 20th score in my record is 16th June. So just over 3 months to refresh my record completely.

 

[AussieKB]

6 weeks seems exceptionally fast to me. I reckon I play quite a bit (we have 3 acceptable comps per week in the summer), but my 20th score in my record is 16th June. So just over 3 months to refresh my record completely.

I play normally in comps Wednesday Thursday and Saturday, plus Veterans every 2nd week on a Monday, plus have the opportunity to play in a Tuesday and Sunday competition, helps that I am retired.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

6 weeks seems exceptionally fast to me. I reckon I play quite a bit (we have 3 acceptable comps per week in the summer), but my 20th score in my record is 16th June. So just over 3 months to refresh my record completely.

I'm on about a 7 week cycle. Varies club to club, some clubs like Newmacher for eg have 4 medals a week. Very easy to have large handicap variances playing that often.

 

[Voyager EMH]

"It is only used for competition purposes" requires no clarification, and none is given. Your refusal to ever admit you were mistaken is tiresome. I'm done.

I too, had that same interpretation as you when I first read the WHS bumf last year that the 95% would only apply to formal organised club competition rounds only.
I realised, with increased reading and research, communication on forums with people who had already gained more knowledge than me, that any one sentence read on its own did not necessarily mean an absolute truth at that time. I changed my view due to advice from @Swango1980 and others like him who have been well ahead of me in understanding since Nov last year.
Establishing the facts from the first drafts of WHS info was a tricky business. Their info appeared sketchy at times.
I think I understand why that was - although this has taken some time for me to realise.
The early WHS info had to keep to the submitting of scores and the adjustment of handicaps and not venture into club competitions in too much depth. That area was to be governed by different regional and national organisations with some scope for autonomy at county and club level. Hence when it came to playing handicaps and allowances the word "recommended" was used. When England Golf adopted the Rules of Handicapping this was changed to "mandatory".
I never think that I have perfect knowledge and I certainly do not have perfect knowledge of the Rules Of Handicapping as adopted by England Golf.
But when I am unsure about something, I do my best to find out facts, read further, consult others etc.
Cherry picking single sentences from the advice and guidance that has been changing, increasing and adapting is probably not helpful as anyone can then come back with more cherry-picked sentences - as I did to your annoyance. And for that, as I am guilty of cherry-picking, I apologise to you and everyone here.
People with differing views will tend to find each other tiresome - not much I can do about that I'm afraid.
My interpretation of "competition purposes" includes social, casual, informal golf and this is why "playing with and against others" has been included in the Rules of Handicapping.
But I could be wrong.
It would appear odd that two people in a club competition, could have different handicaps in that club competition than if they chose to play against each other on the same day on the same course in the same format, but not in the club competition where the field was the same size in both groups. Never used to happen before and I don't see why it should happen now.

 

[rulefan]

It would appear odd that two people in a club competition, could have different handicaps in that club competition than if they chose to play against each other (I assume you mean strokeplay format) on the same day on the same course in the same format, but not in the club competition where the field was the same size in both groups. Never used to happen before and I don't see why it should happen now.

There is no reason why the organisers of the 'non-competition' event shouldn't award prizes based on the PH.

 

[Orikoru]

6 weeks seems exceptionally fast to me. I reckon I play quite a bit (we have 3 acceptable comps per week in the summer), but my 20th score in my record is 16th June. So just over 3 months to refresh my record completely.

My 20th round is from October 2019.

 

[Swango1980]

"It is only used for competition purposes" requires no clarification, and none is given. Your refusal to ever admit you were mistaken is tiresome. I'm done.

If I play in a roll up with 9 or 10 friends, is this not a competition? Is the definition of a competition include that it must only be something organised by Committee. If organised between friends, it must bot be called a competition?

I'd have thought we could call it a competition, thus we should follow England Golfs guidelines on Playing Handicap if we were to apply WHS correctly

 

[Springveldt]

So you played around or just under your handicap and he played a good bit better than his? And therefore he won.

I don't see anything particularly out of the ordinary re. a 15 handicapper being +8 thru 17 holes, would have been a very nice cut in CONGU old money if done in a counting comp and well within the standard deviation of scores that many 15 handicappers are capable of. My best gross score is +5 in competition and my best 9 holes is -1 gross and my lowest ever playing handicap is 11.

Apologies for digging up an older comment, was just reading through the thread.

A 15 handicapper being 7 shots better than handicap doesn't happen as often as you think. According to this https://oga.org/sites/default/files/Probability Table.pdf it's a 1 in 552 rounds. Personally, my best net round is -6 which was me shooting a 76 (+6) as a 12 handicapper.

 

[Swango1980]

But it wasn't more equitable, how is giving every player in the field another 1.9 shots equitable? It's a pointless addition to an already stupid system.

Yes, relatively speaking it doesn't matter whether CR-Par is included or not (except in simply how the numbers round up).

However, it makes sense to make it fit to the relative difficulty of the course. A scratch golfer, in the UK, plays of scratch on every single course. At my old course, short and easy, they'd need 39 points to play to handicap. Then they'd go to a course like Whistling Straits back tees, and 31 points is playing to handicap. OK if they compare their score to CR, but it is clear most golfers compare their score to par. 31 points at the tough will generally feel deflating compare to 39 at the easy course.

Go to US, at the easy course they'd have a handicap of -3 (plus 3 golf speak). Then get to Whistling Straits and be off 5.

 

[Springveldt]

I play normally in comps Wednesday Thursday and Saturday, plus Veterans every 2nd week on a Monday, plus have the opportunity to play in a Tuesday and Sunday competition, helps that I am retired.

I've played more golf this year than in the last 3 years as I've been able to get out for some of the Wednesday comps this year. My 20th round is from 22/05/2021. I'd say the previous 2 years I would have been lucky to get 20 rounds in the whole season.

 

[Backsticks]

I play normally in comps Wednesday Thursday and Saturday, plus Veterans every 2nd week on a Monday, plus have the opportunity to play in a Tuesday and Sunday competition, helps that I am retired.

That would be exceptional by a long shot. When hc sec some years ago I remember looking at it. One of the end of year review reports used to show it. And excluding the few times a year golfers, we had about 200 genuinely active full members of the mens club. The average came out at 12 point somthing qualifying competition returns per year. 6 or 8 was not uncommon. 20 was about the number for golfers we would have considered very active. We would have non qualifying winter rules for 4-5 months per year, and a lot of the play for those quite active golfers would also include match play trophy matches, interclub teams, fourballs, and scrambles or whatever, for men who generally just had one competitive game each weekend. There werent really many higher though a handful were in the 30-60 range - generally like yourself who were retired and playing opens regularly during the week through the summer. Or going further afield during the winter months to play some links courses. I think we could guess that a sample from those posting here are more likely to be on the higher end of golfing frequency too rather than the majority for who it is a lesser interest.

 

[badgergm]

I'm surprised the county and EG haven't come down on him like a ton of bricks

I’m sure he’s exaggerating. But I’m equally sure he does little or no policing. I pointed out the other day that someone had somehow submitted a card for handicap from a team comp ( was a low round). “Yeah, they’ve been doing dodgy stuff all year”. To be honest I’m surprised he knew it wasn’t allowed to count.

 

[AussieKB]

Have just flushed my 20th card through the system again, 1st was on 19/9 and the 20th was on 23/10
I played off a 2 handicap once, 3 twice, 4 nine times, 5 six times, 6 once and 7 once.

Seven different course in the 20 rounds.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

However, it makes sense to make it fit to the relative difficulty of the course. A scratch golfer, in the UK, plays of scratch on every single course. At my old course, short and easy, they'd need 39 points to play to handicap. Then they'd go to a course like Whistling Straits back tees, and 31 points is playing to handicap. OK if they compare their score to CR, but it is clear most golfers compare their score to par. 31 points at the tough will generally feel deflating compare to 39 at the easy course.

I disagree on your last point.

I would expect that the vast majority of scratch players have enough understanding of the relative difficulties of the courses they play, and would adjust their expectations accordingly.

The opposite is usually true for higher handicappers.