rulefan
Tour Winner
But that was true of CONGU and the facility for casual scores was there before. As it happens the apps make it easier but they would have come with CONGU anyway.
WHS working well for me
- Thread starter jim8flog
- Start date
rulefan
Tour Winner
It was. Unified Handicap System was the official title. CONGU was/is the name of the organisation.
Mandofred
Well-known member
It was just too much of a hassle to put in a supplement score before......now, really easy.....which means I'll do it a lot. Of course there will be the people who will find it easy to abuse it.....but according to some golfers, very few golfers cheat......hehehehehe. More than you would think......
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
So prompted by a friend's question last night, I checked out how Open scores are affecting my handicap. (Gone from 5.3 to 7.0). Of my current 8 counting scores, 7 are from Opens. I play at least 1:1 open to medals, but as I play a few 36ers, and often Sat/Sun opens it's probably slightly over.
I've basically been a 6 handicap for the last 20 years, with briefs forays to 5, and very briefs terms at 4 & 7, but essentially a 6 on the low end.
So why have I crept up and now play off 7 or even 8 at times? Well now under WHS there's no buffer zone, for a 6 that's effectively 2 shots right there, there's no away CSS which was always invariably higher, and (imo) created a false handicap cut, especially for someone like me whose scores are baised towards Open events.
Taking both together really explains my more or less 2 shot gain of handicap this year. It doesn't mean I like the system any better, but it explains what's happened to me.
I've basically been a 6 handicap for the last 20 years, with briefs forays to 5, and very briefs terms at 4 & 7, but essentially a 6 on the low end.
So why have I crept up and now play off 7 or even 8 at times? Well now under WHS there's no buffer zone, for a 6 that's effectively 2 shots right there, there's no away CSS which was always invariably higher, and (imo) created a false handicap cut, especially for someone like me whose scores are baised towards Open events.
Taking both together really explains my more or less 2 shot gain of handicap this year. It doesn't mean I like the system any better, but it explains what's happened to me.
rulefan
Tour Winner
A very significant point
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Likewise.
I was 8 for years until WHS but very quickly had a CH round my own track of 10. On reflection it became obvious why. I was very good at playing to the buffer, usually bang on 10 - but less good at playing to 8 or better. When I accumulated a few +0.1s I would usually manage to find one or two decent rounds under h/cap to pull myself back.
So in truth on reflection my golf has probably been 10handicap for a good few years, and I had become a bit of a SF h/cap ‘snob’. Given that realisation and acceptance of it, I am very comfortable with how WHS is working for me and reflecting my current transitional state ( as I rebuild my swing).
NorfolkShaun
Journeyman Pro
Noticed a funny one for me, I have hit the soft cap for some odd reason WHS has my handicap as 10.5 for eight rounds (over 14 months due to lockdowns)
with my current handicap 14.2 I cannot clear the soft cap until April 2022.
seems weird to me there is this extended period of my handicap not changing even 0.1. Anyone come across this?
with my current handicap 14.2 I cannot clear the soft cap until April 2022.
seems weird to me there is this extended period of my handicap not changing even 0.1. Anyone come across this?
moogie
Tour Winner
I thought it did still change
But in half the increments it would normally be.....??
1 of my playing partners is in same situation, but still changing his index
NorfolkShaun
Journeyman Pro
my current is handicap changing but on soft cap
But the soft cap is based against the period where my handicap did not change for eight rounds. Due to lockdown I have to wait till April next year for the soft cap point to move.
seems odd how I can have such a long period with no change something seems wrong. Hopefully image attached makes sense
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Just looking through an opponents handicap record. Looks manipulated to me with the 2 lowest scores being pushed out of the 20, and some huge numbers added in their place . I struggle with the authenticity of this record and I think it’s clearly been manipulated … the system looks to be no better than the old system in this regard and the chap just puts a couple of bad cards in to remove the good ones and gains at least 4 strokes. As the best ones he has are 7 to 10 shots worse. Then looking at it he is due to replace these with 2 more rounds and the lowest will be 6 more shot higher …
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The image does not make sense in some respect as it only shows one score in 2021.
Soft and hard caps are done on a rolling 365 day basis i.e your low index as at 365 days previous, not on the date of any given score other than an initial one which triggers the cap (if you follow).
NorfolkShaun
Journeyman Pro
ahh sorry, there are more scores to bring up to date but the image is all the 10.5 rounds and where there was a fluctuating index either side. Then there are 14 rounds since not showing with movement from the 18th April round at 11.1 to current date where I am 14.2 soft cap adjusted. The 2021 is the first qualifying round since lockdown.
with Congo you would be very unlikely to hit buffer for eight qualifying rounds, with WHS there is no buffer but this shows no change for eight rounds, just seems really odd.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Under the UHS I spent around 10 years with no significant change in my handicap varied between 5.5 and 6.4 so no real difference back then for me.
With the WHS (except for one significantly bad period, return after lockdown) my H.I has only varied by just over one shot.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
So yesterday didn’t sit right with me so I went off and calculated this guys handicap if his 8 lowest scores were used. The 20 cards window is being used to hide or remove low scores. There was a 6 shot deficit from current and what should be.
I am afraid the system is no stronger than the one it replaces ..
If I was unscrupulous I could add a few more poor cards in and jump up quite nicely, but my morals prevent me from doing so.
Lesson learned though don’t bother playing competitions until the system has got a solution.
I am afraid the system is no stronger than the one it replaces ..
If I was unscrupulous I could add a few more poor cards in and jump up quite nicely, but my morals prevent me from doing so.
Lesson learned though don’t bother playing competitions until the system has got a solution.
Swango1980
Well-known member
WHS is always a system that would be open to more abuse for getting handicaps to go upwards. It had to be, one of the selling points was that in the old system handicaps did not go up quick enough. So, by definition, creating a system that allows handicaps to go up quicker will open it up to being abused for those that want their handicaps as high as possible. The main hope is "players won't do that", which is obviously naive, given the hundreds of stories on this forum alone that has provided examples of such players.
I had a bad round on Saturday and my Index went up 0.5 (it would have gone up the same amount even if it was a mediocre round). So, depending on what a players historical scores are, they could quickly get juice increases if they could submit a few rounds and remove several from their top 8. The skill will be for such players to time their score entry, so that they get the biggest increase immediately prior to entering their biggest event(s) of the year.
wjemather
Well-known member
There is no automatic solution, and there is never likely to be. The handicap system is a peer review system, which means all golfers have responsibility for maintaining the integrity of it. If you believe anyone is acting unscrupulously, you need to fulfil your responsibilities and submit a report/complaint to the relevant handicap committee.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Yes I have been considering that. But to be honest I will be accused of being a sore loser. So I will step back and let everyone enjoy the possibilities that could occur.
But it’s good to know that if you can just view the handicap records you can identify the bandits.. I think match play competitions are fun , but they are the obvious victims of this behaviour. The normal competitions are just not worth the effort required and a good score stays on unless you can put in 3 general play cards a week over the summer period to go up for the next big competition
sweaty sock
Hacker
Is anyone aware of the number of casual rounds and how it compared to the old supplementary rounds (I naively assume its exploded, but have zero evidence).
I played with a guy yesterday who signed in, asked me to mark his card, which I was happy to do, until he picked up his ball on the first after declaring his 2 footer a gimme!?
Quite shocked, I reminded him he was playing for his handicap, and kind of apologised I was writing down no score on the first... but he was adamant in the new system gimmies were fine in casual rounds and his normal group had been doing it all year.
Obviously with 17 holes to play I was keen not to fall out, and was releived when he agreed to just putt out for the rest of the round.
Anyone else had this!? (I hope its a one off, though am nearly certain itll be gimmies all round again when hes with his normal group...)
He wasnt a particularly low handicapper, and in his defence his handicap was reflective of his ability... but still...
I played with a guy yesterday who signed in, asked me to mark his card, which I was happy to do, until he picked up his ball on the first after declaring his 2 footer a gimme!?
Quite shocked, I reminded him he was playing for his handicap, and kind of apologised I was writing down no score on the first... but he was adamant in the new system gimmies were fine in casual rounds and his normal group had been doing it all year.
Obviously with 17 holes to play I was keen not to fall out, and was releived when he agreed to just putt out for the rest of the round.
Anyone else had this!? (I hope its a one off, though am nearly certain itll be gimmies all round again when hes with his normal group...)
He wasnt a particularly low handicapper, and in his defence his handicap was reflective of his ability... but still...
wjemather
Well-known member
Sorry, that's just nowhere near good enough. If you believe there is an issue, you have a responsibility to report it and not be part of the problem.
wjemather
Well-known member
Yes, casual rounds are massively up on supplementaries - up from one or two, to over 50 per week at our club.
His handicap committee need to be made aware so they can re-educate everyone.
