WHS working well for me

[Deleted member 15344]

I presume you are talking a bout trophy comps where all handicaps get lumped together.

We play our normal comps in Divisions. I have on two this year one with 2 under nett and the other 3, one in Div 1 seniors up to 16CH handicap and the other in Div 2 club 10-16CH.

Nope - including the divisions as well , I was level gross in the last medal , winner on div 1 was a 12 handicap who used to be off 6 before Whs - he was 4 over and won with a net 63

 

[jim8flog]

Nope - including the divisions as well , I was level gross in the last medal , winner on div 1 was a 12 handicap who used to be off 6 before Whs - he was 4 over and won with a net 63

Long before the WHS was even being considered the lowest handicap player at our club once told me he only entered Saturday comps for the 2s pot and the best gross prize. He knew he was never going to win the nett prize.

 

[Junior]

I'm not noticing crazy silly scores at any of the clubs I belong to(that I have noticed, dont think I remember one being better than say 43ish normally winning is around 41 or lower, depending on club).

Are these crazy scores being done by the 'rush of new members/improving golfers' or being won by old members who had big revisions to their handicap due WHS introduction/general play rounds since (ie. both of these things almost happened at once) ?

[as an aside also aware than the current weather will tend to kick out silly scores, as the conditions make the course alot easier for some people]

A combination of new members and members who didn't have 20 cards. We had quite a few of the latter who's handicaps went from circa 18/20 to mid 20's. As our course rating is quite high, a hi of 24 means they get 26 shots. So a lot of our member gained 5+ shots overnight. I played a lovely old fella in a knockout who was off 20, and at the start of the new season was off 27. He came top 5 in the first 3 comps of the year and is now back down to where he wanted to be.

I'll add, Ive come to like the new system in that it provides a more 'real time' handicap. I've never played as many qualifiers as I have this year. I just wish a lot of other players would do the same.

 

[Junior]

We were seeing a similar issue during the first few months of the season. However, as the HC's seem to have levelled out a bit, we're now seeing more single figure golfers competing towards the top of the board.
Early in the season you had to shoot 63-64 (Par 72) to win. This has gradually risen to 67-68 now.
Captain's Day was won with 46 points in June. President's day was won with 41 points last week.
Some dodgy bandit won the mid-week medal with a 68 playing off 10 last week. That wouldn't have been top 20 2 months ago.

Give it another month and see where the scores are. I'd be surprised if it didn't start levelling off pretty soon at your place.

Anyway, just to say... I love the new system. Best season I've had in a decade!!!!!

I've heard there's a lot of complaints about handicaps in the knockouts at your place too

Let's sort a knock soon, it's been too long!

 

[bluewolf]

I've heard there's a lot of complaints about handicaps in the knockouts at your place too

Let's sort a knock soon, it's been too long!

Well they’re certainly not talking about me bud. I’m down to 8 now and would probably be a bit lower if I wasn’t stuck playing all these matchplay games ???

Definitely get a game soon bud. Open invite to the Costa Del BOL ?

 

[wjemather]

Nope - including the divisions as well , I was level gross in the last medal , winner on div 1 was a 12 handicap who used to be off 6 before Whs - he was 4 over and won with a net 63

Sounds like a glaring outlier of a difference at WHS transition that should have been reviewed by your handicap committee. It's highly unlikely that old cat 1/2 players would show a difference of more than a couple of strokes without there being an issue with their record.

 

[IanM]

Sounds like a glaring outlier of a difference at WHS transition that should have been reviewed by your handicap committee. It's highly unlikely that old cat 1/2 players would show a difference of more than a couple of strokes without there being an issue with their record.

'ang on... us plebs we told not to question the wisdom of the celestial algorithms or a plague of leather jackets would be foisted upon our unworthy souls!!

Serious head back on... isnt there a "cap" that should prevent such a jump?

 

[sweaty sock]

Theres a player at our club who plays in at least 3 rounds a week, they play in loads of away comps, proper golfaholic. In the last 8 weeks, just in June and July, his handicap has been as high as 3 (at the start) and as low as plus 2. Hes currently 2.... In one month! 3 would struggle to get in county events, +2 nearly got you into the british amatuer this year....

I reckon in years gone by that sort of 5 shot swing and back may have taken half a decade? Maybe more...

So to expect handicaps to settle down is a hopeless pipe dream I suspect...

 

[sweaty sock]

Oops I told a bit of a lie there, sorted it now...

 

[wjemather]

'ang on... us plebs we told not to question the wisdom of the celestial algorithms or a plague of leather jackets would be foisted upon our unworthy souls!!

Serious head back on... isnt there a "cap" that should prevent such a jump?

It's not a matter of questioning the algorithms or calculations, just the "scores" that are being used in them. We had a couple of people with scores on their record that belonged to someone else with a similar name, lots of people with "NR"s that were not supposed to have been transitioned (according to EG), missing scores that had not uploaded to CDH from our ISV (the ISV still claim that this was not possible!!), and many people with very few scores during the 3 year period that was used. It's this last group that demonstrated the biggest anomalies at transition. Handicap committees were supposed to review these things prior to transition (a simple report was provided to highlight handicap differences) - it's obvious that many did not.

The soft and hard caps only come into effect once the low index is set, for which there need to be 20 scores on a player's record.

 

[IanM]

Oh gosh.

Line 1 : Satire

Line 2 : A question

Apologies if that wasn't sufficiently signposted.


In the example cited by "Sweaty" - we have a bloke with a gazillion scores on record. So why the 5 shot swing and the cap not coming into effect?

 

[sweaty sock]

Im sure it is, the cap is 5 shots though, and his lifts have been half speed for a few rounds.... its just he can replace his entire record in no time at all. Im not sure of his lowest maybe +1.6? So soft cap at 1.4...

 

[IanM]

its just he can replace his entire record in no time at all. .

Hope I'll be doing same when I pack in work!

 

[sweaty sock]

Hope I'll be doing same when I pack in work!

Whats also apparent is that good players have 'form' that most higher handicap players dont seem to have, so its very common for a stretch of good scores to appear in a short purple patch, so consequently, they drop off in quick succession, potentially meaning (relatively) big swings...

The player is first to admit his talent has neither improved nor regressed!

 

[timd77]

So far, I’ve only been putting comp scores in, but would like to start putting general scores in.

What’s the process for doing this if I use the England golf app? Do I still have to sign in at the pro shop? How do I get someone to ‘sign the card’ if it’s being done on the app?

 

[Biggleswade Blue]

So far, I’ve only been putting comp scores in, but would like to start putting general scores in.

What’s the process for doing this if I use the England golf app? Do I still have to sign in at the pro shop? How do I get someone to ‘sign the card’ if it’s being done on the app?

You have to play with someone else who has a handicap as smeone has to witness and verify your score.

You register your intent to play on the England Golf App. You'll need to do this at, or near the course.

You enter your scores on the app.

At the end of the round your playing partner will be asked, via the England Golf App, to confim your score.

You can also enter a photograph of the signed scorecard.

My club use IG, and you can do all this via the IG app insted of the England Golf app if you are playing at your home club. I am not sure how robust the IG app verification from another player is; uploading the signed scorecard is, I assume, the verification in the IG case.

I think I've got that right. I'm sure someone will be along rto tell us if I haven't.

 

[2blue]

It's not a matter of questioning the algorithms or calculations, just the "scores" that are being used in them. We had a couple of people with scores on their record that belonged to someone else with a similar name, lots of people with "NR"s that were not supposed to have been transitioned (according to EG), missing scores that had not uploaded to CDH from our ISV (the ISV still claim that this was not possible!!), and many people with very few scores during the 3 year period that was used. It's this last group that demonstrated the biggest anomalies at transition. Handicap committees were supposed to review these things prior to transition (a simple report was provided to highlight handicap differences) - it's obvious that many did not.

The soft and hard caps only come into effect once the low index is set, for which there need to be 20 scores on a player's record.

Yeah..... there's been a lot of negligence to blame..... not the WHS, which we have found to be great progress we've waited a long time for.... a 'playing-field' leveler when going to other courses.
There's no real secret..... just put lots of cards in & don't be 'precious' about your H/cap going up a bit as it's probably where you should be.

 

[wjemather]

Just reading back through some of these, should an NR in a comp not be included in a comp? I NRd after 2 holes in my last comp, put the scorecard in for transparency, and was given a score of 127 and my hcp went up by 1. Assumed this was normal?

You did the right thing by submitting your card, however...

For handicapping purposes, you should have completed the round (following an NR in a medal, you may play and score the remaining holes as if a Stableford using your Course Handicap). Additionally, if you didn't play more than 9 holes, your score is not acceptable for handicapping and as such, if it has been entered on your handicap record erroneously (i.e. with all zeros after the 2nd) it should be removed from your record.

 

[timd77]

You did the right thing by submitting your card, however...

For handicapping purposes, you should have completed the round (following an NR in a medal, you may play and score the remaining holes as if a Stableford using your Course Handicap). Additionally, if you didn't play more than 9 holes, your score is not acceptable for handicapping and as such, if it has been entered on your handicap record erroneously (i.e. with all zeros after the 2nd) it should be removed from your record.

Ok, I didn’t know I should have properly completed the round. I didn’t want to affect my PPs rounds and so I carried on playing but didn’t put my own score down, picked up when on the green etc to keep play moving. Damn. It was strokeplay. I put a line through my card and wrote nr on it.

Should I contact the handicap secretary and let them know?

 

[rulefan]

Ok, I didn’t know I should have properly completed the round. I didn’t want to affect my PPs rounds and so I carried on playing but didn’t put my own score down, picked up when on the green etc to keep play moving. Damn. It was strokeplay. I put a line through my card and wrote nr on it.

Should I contact the handicap secretary and let them know?

Yes. They should remove the record.