WHS working well for me

[Banchory Buddha]

All the handicap committee can do is process tge scores, if its


Scratch teams are picked on a meritocracy, so lowest handicappers play. Now you have "new" good golfers being picked ahead of "established" good players and being absolutely annihilated in matches...

Ah OK, you lost me there, our captain picks what he thinks is the best team and that's it. Looks like you might have to do similar now then?

 

[sweaty sock]

My lack of motivation on the bad rounds come from

Its not one of my better scores, I've got plenty, or have time to get more 'nearly scores'. And there's literally no penalty for a horrendous score, so whats the point in trying now that .1s dont happen. Literally a throw away the card situation.

 

[sweaty sock]

My lack of motivation on the bad rounds come from

Its not one of my better scores, I've got plenty, or have time to get more 'nearly scores'. And there's literally no penalty for a horrendous score, so whats the point in trying now that .1s dont happen. Literally a throw away the card situation.

That 'throw away the card' could be taken as not submitting the card, I'd always submit the card, no matter what combination of letters and numbers it had writting on it ...

 

[wjemather]

Scratch teams are picked on a meritocracy, so lowest handicappers play. Now you have "new" good golfers being picked ahead of "established" good players and being absolutely annihilated in matches...

When it comes to match-play, meritocracy is not all about handicap, which only demonstrates average-best stroke-play ability. Other factors must be considered when selecting scratch teams, such as demonstrated match-play ability, consistency, etc.

 

[jim8flog]

Took me years of effort to get where I was, now I can undo and repeat the feat in literally days.
The ego handicaps and sandbaggers have tripled at my club. Even the scratch matches are now a nonsense as there are so many players with low handicaps due to gaming the system that many matches have become practical walk overs.

Its not been good for me. Its been a total disaster.

I presume from that remark you play nearly every day and put in a card every time you play.

I play in about 20-30 comps a year and so far my handicap has become very stable, within 1 shot (Playing Handicap) despite huge fluctuations in scores.

 

[jim8flog]

All the handicap committee can do is process tge scores, if its


Scratch teams are picked on a meritocracy, so lowest handicappers play. Now you have "new" good golfers being picked ahead of "established" good players and being absolutely annihilated in matches...

On the other hand prior to (and even now) the WHS we had 'good players' not submitting bad rounds so their handicap would not go up so they stayed in teams keeping out improving players (who were better than than them in reality) from getting in the teams. As an observation team captains tend to pick established players over 'newcomers'.

 

[sweaty sock]

I presume from that remark you play nearly every day and put in a card every time you play.

I play in about 20-30 comps a year and so far my handicap has become very stable, within 1 shot (Playing Handicap) despite huge fluctuations in scores.

We did the calc in another thread, but for a 10 handicap player to get to scratch was practically impossible in less than about 3 years. So a committed long term goal. Last week a 5 handicapper got cut to 1.6, in one round!!

 

[jim8flog]

We did the calc in another thread, but for a 10 handicap player to get to scratch was practically impossible in less than about 3 years.

I would slightly disagree under the UHS I went from 12 to 5 in about 6 months when I stopped work and played regularly. It was only my age and fitness which stopped me going lower. The trouble with doing it just by calculation is that it does not take in to account handicap committee review, I had 2 in that period.

However I would agree on that point about the WHS. Based upon the average best 8 of the rounds played I would have gone lower under the WHS.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am afraid I could be viewed as a sand bagger as I have not put any cards in since July 10th, nor played any medals. The reason being I play late afternoon or early evening on my own or the the day in the weekend I have is a match play round.
I get few weekends free as the wife has a shoot or there is some family get together.

The last match play round I was asked how I managed to get my handicap up and brutally honest I played poorly in all the competitions I played.
I don’t want to put a card in when I am rolling up, it won’t overly change my handicap as I have 8 pretty low scores that at my best I am 1 or 2 shots below and at my worst 10 shots above!

July 10th? That’s recent! I’ve a match coming up against a bloke who plays very regularly yet hasn’t put a score in since June 6th. He’s told me he‘s playing 4 rounds next week - I’ll be interested to see if any hit his handicap record. He knocked me out of another comp a couple of months back and played well under his handicap…hmm…oh suspicious mind…though I did myself play not that well…?

 

[Imurg]

I must say, the more this year goes on the more WHS is ruining my enjoyment of the game.

I used to love the challenge of reducing my handicap. And the grind of trying to save .1 lifts.

Now I'm regularly standing on the 9th tee with literally nothing to play for, no chance of dislodging a counter, and no motivation to even play on.

.

I know exactly what you mean.
The other week I was on the 14th, the card was never going to be good enough to count but there was no motivation to " make buffer" because, even then, it probably wouldn't be good enough to ever count.. Found it hard to commit to the rest of the round..whereas a couple of years ago I'd have buckled down and tried to buffer at least.

 

[sweaty sock]

I would slightly disagree under the UHS I went from 12 to 5 in about 6 months when I stopped work and played regularly. It was only my age and fitness which stopped me going lower. The trouble with doing it just by calculation is that it does not take in to account handicap committee review, I had 2 in that period.

However I would agree on that point about the WHS. Based upon the average best 8 of the rounds played I would have gone lower under the WHS.

Yeah agree, but in the golden era, once you got to 5, started coming down in .1s, every missed buffer was .1 back, and handicap reviews were very very rarely approved by the county, it was a slog and a half to come down, as I'm sure youre very well aware!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My lack of motivation on the bad rounds come from

Its not one of my better scores, I've got plenty, or have time to get more 'nearly scores'. And there's literally no penalty for a horrendous score, so whats the point in trying now that .1s dont happen. Literally a throw away the card situation.

This is the argument I use in favour of our rollups being WHS qualifiers. If I want to mess around and have fun in my rollup fourball my eventual score can be whatever it is because if it’s rubbish I’ll just chuck it over the fence into my pond of 20 and it’ll sink to the bottom - most likely to never have any impact on my H/I. If it’s half decent then it will or might count - and that’s how it should be.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Yeah agree, but in the golden era, once you got to 5, started coming down in .1s, every missed buffer was .1 back, and handicap reviews were very very rarely approved by the county, it was a slog and a half to come down, as I'm sure youre very well aware!!

Yup, apart from a few months spent at 4 and down to my lowest of 3.7, I spent the last 20 years bouncing back and forwards between 5 & 6. The cuts of 0.1, and the buffer of only one - so effectively when going from 6 to 5 it's like a 2 shot cut - meant I just couldn't stay lower. I was working in a golf shop at the time of my all time low, so was hitting balls and putting all day when quiet.

 

[jim8flog]

Yeah agree, but in the golden era, once you got to 5, started coming down in .1s, every missed buffer was .1 back, and handicap reviews were very very rarely approved by the county, it was a slog and a half to come down, as I'm sure youre very well aware!!

Yes. I had forgotten how quickly I went back to 5.5 and how many years I kept bouncing around between 5.5 and 6.4

 

[Voyager EMH]

I must say, the more this year goes on the more WHS is ruining my enjoyment of the game.

I used to love the challenge of reducing my handicap. And the grind of trying to save .1 lifts.

Now I'm regularly standing on the 9th tee with literally nothing to play for, no chance of dislodging a counter, and no motivation to even play on.

Took me years of effort to get where I was, now I can undo and repeat the feat in literally days. It decides matchplay in a nearly random fashion, it is unpolicable by commitees, and is in no way portable to other clubs / countries, because it's so often no refection of your ability to begin with. Its barely portable in my own club due to how loosely applied the rules are in various sweeps and swindles.

The ego handicaps and sandbaggers have tripled at my club. Even the scratch matches are now a nonsense as there are so many players with low handicaps due to gaming the system that many matches have become practical walk overs.

Its not been good for me. Its been a total disaster.

Quite the opposite for me.
Previously the only way to reduce my handicap was to play below my handicap. Now, most of the time, I have only to beat my 8th best score to do so.
A few times, when the first nine holes were poor, I have stuck to the task and returned a score a few shots higher than my handicap. This has the effect of dampening any upward movement when a good score disappears from the 20 in subsequent rounds. Very useful, I have found, to have several scores 3 shots higher than handicap in my 20. Previously, these would have all been +0.1. Now they have the effect of actually limiting rises to handicap.
In my last 20 scores, there are 12 that would previously caused my handicap to rise by 1.2. Now those 12 poor scores have no bearing on my handicap.
It has taken me 5 decades of effort to get where I am.
If my handicap goes up, I have only myself to blame for returning poor scores. WHS will then give me a realistic handicap a lot sooner than the old system would have done.
All in all, a much better system of handicap adjustment than the previous one.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Quite the opposite for me.
A few times, when the first nine holes were poor, I have stuck to the task and returned a score a few shots higher than my handicap. This has the effect of dampening any upward movement when a good score disappears from the 20 in subsequent rounds. Very useful, I have found, to have several scores 3 shots higher than handicap in my 20.

Good idea, that's maybe where the back up focus needs to be for next season, I'm currently looking at my 9th worst, but should probably have a few beyond that too

 

[Deleted member 3432]

I agree with much that @sweaty sock posted.

I don't think the shift of emphasis from ability to form is doing the system any favours. I realised this week after losing a mixed 4s tie when we were 3 under par scratch (against a player whose handicap has become artificially high presumably due to a run of bad form but who retains the ability to play well below it) and similar happened to me in the singles, that I just wasn't enjoying playing out my skin and not being able to compete due to the sheer number of shots being given. The slope system exacerbates it - HI drifts up due to bad form and then even more shots are added due to slope. I probably play too much golf anyway so it may be that I won't bother with the handicap knockouts next year.

Incidentally, my partner in that match had 0.7 as his index (2 days ago) and is now at 1.5. So within striking distance of scratch and now off 2. I doubt he can have played more than 2 rounds for that - certainly only once at our club.

The volatility of my own handicap is also a pain. My handicap similarly doubled in two rounds at the start of the year, another couple of bad scores and I almost went from 1 to 3 in four rounds! I didn't lose any ability in that stretch - just a couple of bad rounds in tough conditions when good scores were coming off. I guess the flipside is that it's easier to come down as well, but is that a good thing? Not sure.

I haven't experienced the loss of interest because I've spent most of the year battling to replace good scores so even when I couldn't go down I always seemed to have damage limitation to play for. I now have 5 of my last 6 scores counting so maybe I'll have a few "meaningless" rounds coming up.

Still too early to tell, I think, if the system is better or worse or just different. There's always been people with dodgy handicaps, just seems there's more than ever but might just be sour grapes .

Starting to get used to it though.

My attitude has one of I can put a general play score in any time I wish when I'm off work midweek at the start of the season and did this maybe 50% of the time I played although I'm rapidly becoming of the mind of why bother?

If I can play at the weekend I will play in the comp purely for a game of golf. Comp play is simply for another counting score, no aspirations of being competative as it seems a course record or near course record would be required.

Not interested in 36 hole scratch events, too old for more than an occasional one for it to be anything other than a slog and any fourball event is a waste of time due to needing crazy scores in this.

Competition golf has lost its appeal in the last month despite playing some of my best golf for a long time this year. Enjoying playing with my mates, whereas in the past competition golf was more of a focus.

Strangely 7 out of my next 8 scores to drop off are rubbish and I'm not particularly bothered about submitting general play cards as we move into the back end of the season, not much point if I'm not bothered about competing.

 

[harpo_72]

My 8 best scores are pretty close together, but my last competition rounds have been nowhere near them. Plus I got myself down to a reasonable number to go from this season and I went back up 3 strokes with the introduction of whs. I thought that was okay but I have not really benefited or made any thing from it and just played to that handicap..
I don’t think the system is to blame, it’s me. But I am doing/ have done far better in the match play competitions than I have expected.. it might be mind set, winning and losing a hole and moving on irrespective of score might be having a positive impact.
Oh well we will see after the weekend whether any of this is of any consequence.
Dunno what I will do next season as I have played badly this season despite a huge amount of time and effort and it hasn’t transferred to scoring in friendly or competitive rounds ..

 

[Banchory Buddha]

For those who feel strongly enough, have a scroll to the bottom of this page and there's the chance to give feedback. I will be, but only once I've collated some thoughts

https://www.randa.org/worldhandicapsystem

 

[patricks148]

I'd agree with some of the comments here, the whs has done nothing for me and I'm erring towards just not playing comps any longer.

I used to love trying to get my handicap down and saving a score with a buffer.

But now I'm in the position of my handicap being too low, off 2.6, which tbh I wouldn't have had a hope in hells chance of getting to under the old system. I was off 5 ish for the last 8 or so years and I won a couple of silver trophys in that time and a couple of knock outs and the club handicap champs. But now with my club having a lot of plus figure players, I don't stand any chance in any of the gross comps since they changes the course and now with a load of guys who were all mid teen handicaps all getting 4 and sometimes 5 shots more shotsvthan under the old system I don't stand a chance in any of the handicap comps either now. Played it a few seniors comp as well this year and tbh don't stand much of a chance there either as only a couple a gross prize all I've played this year have been won by 20 something handicaps shooting 90plus. I have never entered any comp with the thought of winning but at least I thought I had a chance, now I'd have to shoot well under par gross to compete. One of my mates shot his best score to date at the weekend, 69 gross 2 under par and 4 under the course rating, didn't win, said that was the best he could play and had ever played.