WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[wjemather]

OK thanks - it was a failure to sign-in to the competition.

The score should only be entered for handicapping if you consider it to be pre-registered.

Per G2.1a(2) of CONGU's guidance, competition entry is not sufficient and "registration must be confirmed on the day itself in the manner prescribed by the club/Committee", so I'm thinking that this would be by sign-in (which wasn't done) so the score should not be entered.

 

[Swango1980]

Courses (and tee sets/markers) were initially entered on WHS by clubs themselves last June/July, so any missing tees are down to the clubs, probably a result of lack of adequate communication/understanding. Since October, only EG have been able to make additions/changes.

Just going back to this

Currently our club is only set up to accept 18 hole scores from the various tees (I assume like many). As a club, we'll need to discuss whether 9 holes scores are to be set up with WHS / Club V1, and what 9 hole scores we use.

In the meantime, if a player submits scores for 9 holes (e.g front 9) only, must they be refused for handicap, or are there any adjustments / fiddles that can be done (albeit, probably not as they never pre-registered for 9 holes anyway). I don't think we can just give them net pars for the back 9?

 

[rulefan]

Just going back to this

Currently our club is only set up to accept 18 hole scores from the various tees (I assume like many). As a club, we'll need to discuss whether 9 holes scores are to be set up with WHS / Club V1, and what 9 hole scores we use.

In the meantime, if a player submits scores for 9 holes (e.g front 9) only, must they be refused for handicap, or are there any adjustments / fiddles that can be done (albeit, probably not as they never pre-registered for 9 holes anyway). I don't think we can just give them net pars for the back 9?

For an 18 hole score to be acceptable at least 10 holes must be played. But see Rule 3.2 for how to record the un-played holes.

 

[Swango1980]

For an 18 hole score to be acceptable at least 10 holes must be played. But see Rule 3.2 for how to record the un-played holes.

Yes, but that was not my question

My question was that, this player intended to only submit 9 holes (front 9), and they did. However, technically this was not pre-registered as 9 hole (as there is no option to do so). So, should it be discarded with a simply "sorry, 9 holes scores cannot currently be accepted at our club, but we will endeavor to facilitate this in the future once contacting WHS and Club V1" or do we manipulate the back 9 to make it count?

 

[wjemather]

Yes, but that was not my question

My question was that, this player intended to only submit 9 holes (front 9), and they did. However, technically this was not pre-registered as 9 hole (as there is no option to do so). So, should it be discarded with a simply "sorry, 9 holes scores cannot currently be accepted at our club, but we will endeavor to facilitate this in the future once contacting WHS and Club V1" or do we manipulate the back 9 to make it count?

Since 9-hole scores are scaled up by adding a "17-point" score using the same 9 holes as have been played, you cannot (unless you are a 9-hole that is played twice) enter it using an 18-hole course by adding net pars and a net bogey.

You could potentially calculate the appropriate differential for the 9-hole score and then add an equivalent adjusted gross 18-hole score, but it's unlikely you would be able to match the differential exactly.

It's probably best to simply retain the score and enter it once WHS has been configured with your 9-hole markers.

 

[Old Skier]

Yes, but that was not my question

My question was that, this player intended to only submit 9 holes (front 9), and they did. However, technically this was not pre-registered as 9 hole (as there is no option to do so). So, should it be discarded with a simply "sorry, 9 holes scores cannot currently be accepted at our club, but we will endeavor to facilitate this in the future once contacting WHS and Club V1" or do we manipulate the back 9 to make it count?

If you don't have a registered 9 hole course on the system then you cannot have a qualifier as the slope and CR will be different to playing the 18 hole course.
Someone at the club can sort this fairly quickly by contacting EG with the necessary info.

 

[IanMcC]

Since 9-hole scores are scaled up by adding a "17-point" score using the same 9 holes as have been played, you cannot (unless you are a 9-hole that is played twice) enter it using an 18-hole course by adding net pars and a net bogey.

You could potentially calculate the appropriate differential for the 9-hole score and then add an equivalent adjusted gross 18-hole score, but it's unlikely you would be able to match the differential exactly.

It's probably best to simply retain the score and enter it once WHS has been configured with your 9-hole markers.

I think this is the best solution.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

The score should only be entered for handicapping if you consider it to be pre-registered.

Per G2.1a(2) of CONGU's guidance, competition entry is not sufficient and "registration must be confirmed on the day itself in the manner prescribed by the club/Committee", so I'm thinking that this would be by sign-in (which wasn't done) so the score should not be entered.

He entered the competition and was drawn to play, He paid his entry fee on the day in advance of going out but forgot to sign-in via HDID. It only came to light when he tried to enter his score. Hence the DQ.

Not sure what the exact wording was as I am not part of the competition committee for the tournament but I would be interested to know what they specified.

 

[Swango1980]

He entered the competition and was drawn to play, He paid his entry fee on the day in advance of going out but forgot to sign-in via HDID. It only came to light when he tried to enter his score. Hence the DQ.

Not sure what the exact wording was as I am not part of the competition committee for the tournament but I would be interested to know what they specified.

Given he had booked in, was in the draw and paid up, surely he has been considered as pre registered (hence counting for handicap), and should not be disqualified?

If players forget to Sign In in our weekend comps, we only consider it to be a slight admin issue. No penalty, comp sec just needs to check same number of scores have been returned as number of players in the draw.

The only time Sign In comes into play is the odd midweek comp where there is no draw. Players simply sort out own groups and play. They need to Sign In for that, to ensure they don't shoot a good score then decide to enter afterwards (although, we do get players to book in also, so Committee have an idea who is playing). If they do not sign in, they are not disqualified, but simply removed from the comp. Their score wouldn't count for handicap either, due to no pre registration

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Mixed Foresomes Comps using Club V1

Has anyone set one of these up successfully recently as our ladies secretary can't get the handicaps to calculate correctly?

 

[wjemather]

Mixed Foresomes Comps using Club V1

Has anyone set one of these up successfully recently as our ladies secretary can't get the handicaps to calculate correctly?

We ran a foursomes comp a couple of weeks ago and half the team handicaps were a stroke too low on ClubV1. Having reported the issue to CSIcare, I received this response:

"We are currently investigating an issue where the team handicap is being rounded down rather than up in some cases for team competitions in ClubV1. Apologies for any inconvenience this causes – we aim to have the fix released on the week commencing on 21/06."​

I haven't tested it since, but have seen no indication that it has been fixed yet.

 

[rulefan]

Mixed Foresomes Comps using Club V1

Has anyone set one of these up successfully recently as our ladies secretary can't get the handicaps to calculate correctly?

Is she using the correct template? Foursomes?
https://www.congu.co.uk/whs/
What does she see as the difference between the template and her calculations.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I think so:

The issue is that when entering a mixed team, CV1 is not giving the correct team Playing Handicap. It appears that for a lady member on a team, CV1 assumes an incorrect Course Handicap and therefore inaccurate team handicap when the 50% joint Course Handicaps are applied.

We have tested both the 100% (as appears when going through the set-up template) and reducing it to 50% as we have previously done in our Ladies' and indeed Men's Foursomes comps. Have also tried a couple of different player combinations and again there are anomalies. The system requires 3 course selections before moving on so I went for Lakeland/Parkland, Yellow for Men's Course Card, Red for the Ladies' Course Card and for Course Card for Mixed Teams, selected Lakeland/Parkland Yellow Card (although selecting Lakeland/Parkland Red Card made no difference). This latter criteria I assume is selecting the tee for SI but clearly unlike some clubs, ours are the same for white, yellow or red.

 

[rulefan]

I think so:

The issue is that when entering a mixed team, CV1 is not giving the correct team Playing Handicap. It appears that for a lady member on a team, CV1 assumes an incorrect Course Handicap and therefore inaccurate team handicap when the 50% joint Course Handicaps are applied.

We have tested both the 100% (as appears when going through the set-up template) and reducing it to 50% as we have previously done in our Ladies' and indeed Men's Foursomes comps. Have also tried a couple of different player combinations and again there are anomalies. The system requires 3 course selections before moving on so I went for Lakeland/Parkland, Yellow for Men's Course Card, Red for the Ladies' Course Card and for Course Card for Mixed Teams, selected Lakeland/Parkland Yellow Card (although selecting Lakeland/Parkland Red Card made no difference). This latter criteria I assume is selecting the tee for SI but clearly unlike some clubs, ours are the same for white, yellow or red.

Can you give examples of a team set up in V1 as opposed to the calculations using the CONGU template above?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Can you give examples of a team set up in V1 as opposed to the calculations using the CONGU template above?

In case you are wondering there is 0.1 difference in the CR between the 2 tees for our Lakeland / Parkland layout

 

[wjemather]

In case you are wondering there is 0.1 difference in the CR between the 2 tees for our Lakeland / Parkland layout

Is your competition Stableford or medal? The difference in Course Handicaps should be accounted for by the difference in "play to handicap" score between the mens and womens tees if Stableford, and difference in CRs if medal.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Is your competition Stableford or medal? The difference in Course Handicaps should be accounted for by the difference in "play to handicap" score between the mens and womens tees if Stableford, and difference in CRs if medal.

It's stableford I believe.

 

[rulefan]

In case you are wondering there is 0.1 difference in the CR between the 2 tees for our Lakeland / Parkland layout

Very comprehensive but can you give me CR & slope for the tees used please.

 

[wjemather]

It's stableford I believe.

Very comprehensive but can you give me CR & slope for the tees used please.

And, since it's Stableford, the pars for both men and women's tees.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

And, since it's Stableford, the pars for both men and women's tees.

OK - Martin Hawtree did an interesting design for our place where par and SI are the same for all tees used. Hence:

Lakeland / Parkland course, Red tees - CR = 71.8, SR= 129, Par = 72 Yellow Tees - CR = 71.9, SR = 125, Par = 72

We don't (yet) have gender neutral tees so Red = Ladies and Yellow = Gentlemen