WHS Handicap Index

[jim8flog]

(e.g. sore knee after 9, walked in, saw a rule saying 10 holes had to completed), would drop to 8.2. If all last 20 included, ignoring those incomplete 8.9.

That only comes on to effect when the WHS comes in.

 

[jim8flog]

When you calculate them, do you exclude incomplete rounds?

So the HI is effectively the base handicap and then you multiply by slope/113 to get the course handicap for any course, including your own, you are playing at?

If you were treated as 0.1 increase for a NR then it would count as one of the 20. Realistically the comp sec should have taken your card out of the system and withdrawn you as injured but it depends on whether you just NRd or informed them that you had been unable to continue due to injury.

 

[Mozza14]

The WHS transition does not calculate a Course Handicap. It only calculates a Handicap Index.
What is the SSS/CR of the course/tees where most of your scores were recorded? Did it change when you were rated?
A CH relates to a specific set of tees on a specific course. But the effect of the transition conversion calculation is that exactly the same algorithm is applied to all players regardless of the course(s) and tees they may have played in the last two years.

Re the red highlight. How did you determine your HI? I wasn't aware that HIs were published yet.

I have calculated my Course Handicap after calculating my Handicap Index on my own spreadsheets using what I understand to be the calculation described by England Golf .

The SSS and Course Rating off White tees are 72 and 71.6 respectively. Yellow is 70 and 70.4 respectively. My own rounds are a mixture of the two with more white tees. The slope factors are 123 and 121. My course Handicap will be 4 from either tee at the moment whereas my Congu is currently 5.2.

 

[Ethan]

If you were treated as 0.1 increase for a NR then it would count as one of the 20. Realistically the comp sec should have taken your card out of the system and withdrawn you as injured but it depends on whether you just NRd or informed them that you had been unable to continue due to injury.

Didn't bother informing anybody. It is probably theoretical anyway. Currently, if those two rounds were excluded, then the last 20 would capture a pretty good round under CSS from last season and have a nice effect on the estimated WHS handicap index. But if I play a handful more rounds before Nov, that one will fall out of the 20 anyway.

 

[tobybarker]

Can someone point me at a description of what the new system will mean to a member when they turn up to play? If I stay playing the same course from the same tees, does my handicap change depending on the weather, for example, which can make our links course much harder when the wind blows at 50mph..... And, what about visiting other clubs..... If the other course had been deemed "easier" than mine, Will my handicap need to be"looked up" somewhere on the day, and if so, where?

I'm sure these are stupid questions but trying to get answers from our committee is like trying to birdie the SI 1 hole...possible, on a good day, but usually a nightmare

 

[Swango1980]

Can someone point me at a description of what the new system will mean to a member when they turn up to play? If I stay playing the same course from the same tees, does my handicap change depending on the weather, for example, which can make our links course much harder when the wind blows at 50mph..... And, what about visiting other clubs..... If the other course had been deemed "easier" than mine, Will my handicap need to be"looked up" somewhere on the day, and if so, where?

I'm sure these are stupid questions but trying to get answers from our committee is like trying to birdie the SI 1 hole...possible, on a good day, but usually a nightmare

Your handicap won't change based on weather, no. But, the adjustment to it after that round could be weather based, if conditions were harder, much in the same way CSS does this now in competitions (albeit it is now PCC and worked out differently)

You will have an Index. Using a chart (or an app), you will convert this to a Course Handicap on whatever course you play (based on tees as well). Each club should have this chart in a convenient place to view. If you go to another club, they will have the same chart, but your Index may convert to a different Course Handicap.

Finally, once you have your course handicap, you need to convert this to a Playing Handicap. For example, medal / stableford will be 95% of Course Handicap, singles matchplay 100%. If in a competition, again I'd assume the computer / apps will do this for you. though not seen what they'll look like

 

[nickjdavis]

When the WHS uses a players current historical records to calculate their handicap index (or for new players submitting cards to get a handicap index for the first time)....has it been agreed what very bad scores on holes will be adjusted down to?

Will it be...

Double par
A fixed amount of shots over par
Something else?

Obviously, once a player has an allocated handicap index the system uses nett double bogey to adjust blow up holes.

Currently under CONGU I believe that we are using double par.

It appears that the US have chosen to use par + 5 strokes (page 34)...

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/Handicap/Rules-of-Handicapping_USGA_Final.pdf

 

[jim8flog]

Can someone point me at a description of what the new system will mean to a member when they turn up to play? If I stay playing the same course from the same tees, does my handicap change depending on the weather, for example, which can make our links course much harder when the wind blows at 50mph..... And, what about visiting other clubs..... If the other course had been deemed "easier" than mine, Will my handicap need to be"looked up" somewhere on the day, and if so, where?

I'm sure these are stupid questions but trying to get answers from our committee is like trying to birdie the SI 1 hole...possible, on a good day, but usually a nightmare

By now your club should have started to publish information on clubs notice boards and social media with posters from England Golf based upon the toolkit. However like us they be slightly behind the curve due to restrictions on clubhouses opening.

England Golf intend the clubs to drip feed the information with a new poster every fortnight. So far the posters only cover the outline basics and as far as course rating.

If you want to follow the progress of these posters

https://www.englandgolf.org/whs/golfers/

Two of the most important parts is getting in as many comps or supplementary scores as you can before Nov 2nd so that you Handicap index reflects your current ability and remember to look up your Handicap Index on the day you will be playing it is something that will vary dependent on how many and when additional scores have been added to your handicap history.

 

[jim8flog]

So few courses up here seem to have slope ratings.

Where is up here?

 

[jim8flog]

When the WHS uses a players current historical records to calculate their handicap index (or for new players submitting cards to get a handicap index for the first time)....has it been agreed what very bad scores on holes will be adjusted down to?

Will it be...

Double par
A fixed amount of shots over par
Something else?

Obviously, once a player has an allocated handicap index the system uses nett double bogey to adjust blow up holes.

Currently under CONGU I believe that we are using double par.

It appears that the US have chosen to use par + 5 strokes (page 34)...

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/Handicap/Rules-of-Handicapping_USGA_Final.pdf

Par plus 5 strokes will be used for initial handicap. (from what has been said on here and documents linked to )

For ongoing scores

Hole scores may be adjusted:
•By Net Double Bogey for a high hole score.
Or
•If all holes haven't been played, recording a Net Par on the holes not played.
Exception: if less than 14 holes of an 18 hole round have been played, net par + 1 stroke must be added to the first hole not played and net par to the remaining un-played holes
These adjustments are made using the Course Handicap and will be applied by the computer.

 

[jim8flog]

Scotland

funny that because I understood that a lot of the Scottish courses already had slope ratings, before the WHS was considered, to cater for American visitors

 

[jim8flog]

Just based on using the link posted earlier, very few courses listed there.

I understood that the way it works is you have to name the club to get the slop rating.

So I presume you are putting in the clubs you know, one by one.

From other related threads if they have not been done I understand they will be given interim slope ratings based upon SSS v Par. I would expect Covid 19 has put them well behind schedule.

 

[tobybarker]

Clear as mud

 

[YandaB]

I understood that the way it works is you have to name the club to get the slop rating.

So I presume you are putting in the clubs you know, one by one.

From other related threads if they have not been done I understand they will be given interim slope ratings based upon SSS v Par. I would expect Covid 19 has put them well behind schedule.

Are you looking at the correct database? Is that not the one for prisons

There does seem to have been an improvement that you can now look for all courses in a county very easly for England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales which I am sure was not there previously. My course is still only rated for reds :-(

 

[jim8flog]

Are you looking at the correct database? Is that not the one for prisons

There does seem to have been an improvement that you can now look for all courses in a county very easly for England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales which I am sure was not there previously. My course is still only rated for reds :-(

My typing does get very sloppy at times

Thanks for the heads up I had not realised that 'state' brings up the counties and thereby all courses in the county that have been rated.

 

[nickjdavis]

Par plus 5 strokes will be used for initial handicap. (from what has been said on here and documents linked to )

For ongoing scores

Hole scores may be adjusted:
•By Net Double Bogey for a high hole score.
Or
•If all holes haven't been played, recording a Net Par on the holes not played.
Exception: if less than 14 holes of an 18 hole round have been played, net par + 1 stroke must be added to the first hole not played and net par to the remaining un-played holes
These adjustments are made using the Course Handicap and will be applied by the computer.

cheers fella...i was aware of what happens once a player has a handicap...just don't remember seeing any official UK/England Golf originating information confirming what happens for initial handicap and couldn't remember if anything specific had been quoted here.

We are still waiting for our WHS manuals to be sent to the club (unless the club has received them and just filed them somewhere under "not sure what we need to do with this but it might be important")...hopefully they will arrive soon....I did tell the club if they arrived to let me know!!

Regarding the toolkit, I had a rough count up and reckon there are about 80 separate documents/videos/twitter/facebook communications you can download. The information is so high level that you could fit pretty much all of the useful information onto half a dozen pages...but even having read them the average member wouldn't be much the wiser as to what the WHS was all about. I'm producing my own training material (was going to do a ppt presentation before covid scuppered everything) in line with the schedule proposed in the toolkit.

 

[jim8flog]

cheers fella...i was aware of what happens once a player has a handicap...just don't remember seeing any official UK/England Golf originating information confirming what happens for initial handicap and couldn't remember if anything specific had been quoted here.

We are still waiting for our WHS manuals to be sent to the club (unless the club has received them and just filed them somewhere under "not sure what we need to do with this but it might be important")...hopefully they will arrive soon....I did tell the club if they arrived to let me know!!

Regarding the toolkit, I had a rough count up and reckon there are about 80 separate documents/videos/twitter/facebook communications you can download. The information is so high level that you could fit pretty much all of the useful information onto half a dozen pages...but even having read them the average member wouldn't be much the wiser as to what the WHS was all about. I'm producing my own training material (was going to do a ppt presentation before covid scuppered everything) in line with the schedule proposed in the toolkit.

I did the briefings for our club before the tool kit came out and got it all in to 10 pages of A4 spread across 5 briefs.

There is an awful lot of stuff I feel players need to know that is not in the tool kit but the Captain and manager want to only release it slowly.

The biggest thing I notice about tool kit posters is that that take up a lot of space to say next to nothing really.

One of the guys on here has a copy of the draft CONGU manual hence knowing about par plus 5.

 

[rulefan]

funny that because I understood that a lot of the Scottish courses already had slope ratings, before the WHS was considered, to cater for American visitors

Scottish courses have had slope rating for 10 years or more but the USGA database may not have been updated yet.

 

[BubbaP]

Scottish courses have had slope rating for 10 years or more but the USGA database may not have been updated yet.

Do we know why a world system has to be US led, branded, defaulted?

 

[jim8flog]

Do we know why a world system has to be US led, branded, defaulted?

USGA and The R&A have always had close links they (combined) have set the rules of playing for as along I have played.

The US and a lot of other countries worldwide have used the slope rating system for years. By comparison CONGU based handicapping is the system used in a fairly small number of countries.