WHS Handicap Index

[jim8flog]

From the charts (and from memory at the workshop) it says that existing players with handicaps need to have 3 qualifying scores (from January 2018) in their handicap record to get a handicap index.

Does anybody know different? If yes what is the source?

 

[rulefan]

From the charts (and from memory at the workshop) it says that existing players with handicaps need to have 3 qualifying scores (from January 2018) in their handicap record to get a handicap index.

Does anybody know different? If yes what is the source?

They will be transferred to the WHS system but will be treated like a new starter until they get 3 scores in.
I will try to find the source later when I have a few minutes.

 

[rulefan]

It is in a document called WHS - FAQs issued in November last year and is confirmed in the Toolkit recently issued to clubs.

Attached is the process showing how an initial index is built up

 

[jim8flog]

They will be transferred to the WHS system but will be treated like a new starter until they get 3 scores in.
I will try to find the source later when I have a few minutes.

Thanks found it in the FAQs for the Toolkit

The answer given to the manager querying it was a bit more vague and made it read like a player would be some sort of arbitary H.I.

 

[jim8flog]

It is in a document called WHS - FAQs issued in November last year and is confirmed in the Toolkit recently issued to clubs.

Attached is the process showing how an initial index is built up

Interesting discussion with the Manager today who has yet again been on the WHS part of England Golf.

They said

All players with an a existing CONGU handicap will be given a Handicap Index regardless of the number of cards. We have players with no qualifying scores for at least 3 years and E.G. have said that they will be given a H.I. solely based upon their handicap.

 

[rulefan]

From the recent EG toolkit

Q: As a golfer who plays a very small number of competitions, I suspect I will not have 20 scores recorded over the last two years. Can I still have a Handicap Index?
A: Those players who do not have the full 20 scores at transition will have a Handicap Index allocated by the same process as an initial Handicap Index would be allocated and developed.

Those with a handicap and less than 3 scores will be given 3 scores equivalent to their CONGU handicap and then start the process in the table #3

 

[jim8flog]

From the recent EG toolkit

Q: As a golfer who plays a very small number of competitions, I suspect I will not have 20 scores recorded over the last two years. Can I still have a Handicap Index?
A: Those players who do not have the full 20 scores at transition will have a Handicap Index allocated by the same process as an initial Handicap Index would be allocated and developed.

Those with a handicap and less than 3 scores will be given 3 scores equivalent to their CONGU handicap and then start the process in the table #3

I had read that and found the wording very easy to misinterpretation

I had read it to mean that a player must submit 3 cards to to get an initial handicap index.

 

[rulefan]

The 'artificial' allocation of three scores is only for those existing players who have less than 3 scores recorded since 2018 (of course they will undoubtedly not have 'c' status). But they will have a legitimate CONGU handicap and will at some time have put in 3 scores to qualify for a handicap.
If they are new players and have not yet returned the three cards required they will not have a handicap yet. I don't know how they will be 'transitioned' but have been told there are too many numerous 'tricky' situations to list them all. But they are in the algorithm somewhere and affected players/clubs will be informed at the time.

 

[jim8flog]

The 'artificial' allocation of three scores is only for those existing players who have less than 3 scores recorded since 2018 (of course they will undoubtedly not have 'c' status). But they will have a legitimate CONGU handicap and will at some time have put in 3 scores to qualify for a handicap.
If they are new players and have not yet returned the three cards required they will not have a handicap yet. I don't know how they will be 'transitioned' but have been told there are too many numerous 'tricky' situations to list them all. But they are in the algorithm somewhere and affected players/clubs will be informed at the time.

It was the numerous members member we have at our club, from a very quick check using the competition handicap report (over 100 on that with less than 3 in the system), that have not played any comps or submitted any Supps either since the start of 2018 and also known to me many for many years before that, that I was being concerned with.

 

[rulefan]

It was the numerous members member we have at our club, from a very quick check using the competition handicap report (over 100 on that with less than 3 in the system), that have not played any comps or submitted any Supps either since the start of 2018 and also known to me many for many years before that, that I was being concerned with.

Crikey

 

[jim8flog]

Crikey

Having done a thorough check I managed to whittle the figure down to 66 players. Quite a few look as though they have given up playing in comps due to age.

 

[BubbaP]

Having done a thorough check I managed to whittle the figure down to 66 players. Quite a few look as though they have given up playing in comps due to age.

Which perhaps begs the question do they need a handicap index - if just playing socially?

 

[rulefan]

Why not? At present it doesn't cost them or the club anything.

 

[rulefan]

Not for the first time I’m not really understanding the point. Surely a handicap based on so few (and old) scores is effectively worthless?

That is why 'c' status (formerly 'active/inactive') was introduced. The concept didn't fit in with the rest of the world, so has been dropped in WHS. But there's more than one way
to skin a cat.

 

[jim8flog]

Which perhaps begs the question do they need a handicap index - if just playing socially?

The question comes why are they only playing socially when once a lot were quite clearly fairly active?

Maybe it's about feeling that they cannot compete.

Maybe if they were to put in the necessary cards to be given a H.I. which reflects current ability maybe they would start playing comps again.

My own view is why give them a Handicap Index based upon very old data which is then going to make it harder to get to a H.I. which reflects their current ability. Why not simply not give then a H.I. until they submit 3 cards and treat them like a newly handicapped player. However their was a minor uproar at our club when they were informed this could happen. It seems that to quite a few having handicap is more important than having a correct handicap.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

From the charts (and from memory at the workshop) it says that existing players with handicaps need to have 3 qualifying scores (from January 2018) in their handicap record to get a handicap index.

Does anybody know different? If yes what is the source?

I thought that as the introduction of WHS was delayed from Q1 2020 to November 2020 the period for considering scores to calculate the new handicap indexes was January 2019 to end October 2020.

I'm trying to find out this will be done. Will it just be taking the gross differentials we are generating now (Score - CSS) and averaging the best 8 of 20 (or pro-rata as per the formula discussed) or will they try to apply the same process under WHS but backdate it to the previous scores? I don't know how they could do this but unless they do then the new indices will not change too much from the current exact handicaps.

 

[jim8flog]

I thought that as the introduction of WHS was delayed from Q1 2020 to November 2020 the period for considering scores to calculate the new handicap indexes was January 2019 to end October 2020.

I'm trying to find out this will be done. Will it just be taking the gross differentials we are generating now (Score - CSS) and averaging the best 8 of 20 (or pro-rata as per the formula discussed) or will they try to apply the same process under WHS but backdate it to the previous scores? I don't know how they could do this but unless they do then the new indices will not change too much from the current exact handicaps.

see rule fans post #6

This is about what they told our manager -The player will given a H.I equivalent to their current handicap whether or not this was -2 he could not be sure.

Rule fans quoted method means they will get -2.

From going through the H/C history of all the affected players I am fairly sure a large number will not give a monkey's because they no longer play in comps.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Sorry talking about all players not just those with lt 3 scores.

If I have 20 acceptable scores by 31st October over several courses how do the calculate my handicap index?

is it the average of the best 8 differentials in the 20 based on score - CSS or are they going to apply the new method to my past scores to recalculate the new differentials?

 

[rulefan]

I thought that as the introduction of WHS was delayed from Q1 2020 to November 2020 the period for considering scores to calculate the new handicap indexes was January 2019 to end October 2020.

I'm trying to find out this will be done. Will it just be taking the gross differentials we are generating now (Score - CSS) and averaging the best 8 of 20 (or pro-rata as per the formula discussed) or will they try to apply the same process under WHS but backdate it to the previous scores? I don't know how they could do this but unless they do then the new indices will not change too much from the current exact handicaps.

The period goes back to Jan 2018.

They will take the last 20 qualifying scores. Start with the oldest and calculate a score differential as if it it was the players first card. It will be repeated in age sequence until all 20 scores have been processed. Then use the best 8 to determine the handicap index. if there are less than 20 scores the table in post #3 will be used.

 

[rulefan]

The question comes why are they only playing socially when once a lot were quite clearly fairly active?

Maybe it's about feeling that they cannot compete.

Maybe if they were to put in the necessary cards to be given a H.I. which reflects current ability maybe they would start playing comps again.

My own view is why give them a Handicap Index based upon very old data which is then going to make it harder to get to a H.I. which reflects their current ability. Why not simply not give then a H.I. until they submit 3 cards and treat them like a newly handicapped player. However their was a minor uproar at our club when they were informed this could happen. It seems that to quite a few having handicap is more important than having a correct handicap.

Prior to the actual conversion clubs will be given a 'pre run'. This will give the committee an opportunity to spot and plan how to deal with 'anomalies'.
After the actual transition, the committee should look at the lists and may/should adjust the HI of any player they feel is incorrect. Of course they should have sorted out the caps of players who have 'out of date' caps in previous annual reviews.